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View Full Version : Air Combat Flyers are Aggressive Attitudes


nearmiss
04-26-2009, 05:15 AM
Air Combat Sim Enthusiasts far the most part are very aggressive attitudes.

I learned very long time ago, on the Ubisoft boards you can pick a verbal fight very quickly with air combat flyers.

If you want to have good conversations you have to always remember to re-read your posts a couple times before submit and maybe even wait a bit.

No question about it, I don't think you can hang around air combat forums for very long without making some trouble with others. LOL

IMO, air combat sim community is awesome. I expect this would not be the great community it is without some flaired nostrils and someone making a fist. LOL

We always have a venue for our anxieties... ONLINE FURBALLS. :evil:

So, if you read these forums and you are temperamental and sensitive remember this... your demeanor and temper will be tested.:grin:

Don't lose your cool! :-P

Bearcat
04-26-2009, 05:34 AM
In many ways Air Combat enthusaists are like the men they emulate. There is a saying about fighter pilots..

You can always tell a fighter pilot.. you just cant tell him much.

Feuerfalke
04-26-2009, 01:53 PM
Agreed. I'm active in several game-forums, but the combat flightsimmers are a real special group.

IMHO they violate their own rules:
They boresight on a specific thing too often, instead of pulling out to get the full picture.

They rather pick a fight with limited awareness, limited energy and limited chances, than drawing the consequences and leave the battle before it begins.

If they won a fight, they think they are right, no matter if it was pure luck or superior knowledge. And usually the ones fighting a Red Baron won't give up, even if they have to fire with a revolver from the burning wreck on the ground.

And if they lose a fight, they are always convinced it's cheating.

And this is true for game and forum behaviour.

But the conclusion is too often also visible ingame: They rather want to kill that enemy fighter instead of thinking it logic: A wounded fighter is out of the game for the whole time he needs back to base AND the time back into combat, while you still get the points. A killed plane immediately can restart.

As you correctly put it: Too aggressive and too little situational awareness. Just join the furball and fire those comments, er, guns.

IceFire
04-26-2009, 06:55 PM
The problem is twofold.

To be interested/good at being a virtual fighter pilot and to some extent a bomber pilot or attack pilot you need to be smart and aggressive (this can be played out in a variety of manners). Not unlike the real ones.

Unfortunately that doesn't translate well into the forum envrionment. Or even the in-game chat.

Abbeville-Boy
04-26-2009, 09:59 PM
aggressive attitudes! why you want some trouble i can give you some trouble :grin:

KG26_Alpha
04-27-2009, 09:39 PM
Attitude can begin with the persons forum name or signature/avatar (like mine).

Some instantly take offence even if what you have posted is 100% correct, helpful, informative or funny, you will be dismsised and even your post ignored until some one with a sympathetic name, sig, avatar, posts a comment then thats acceptable to them.

Its almost a form of racisim :)

rakinroll
04-28-2009, 01:52 AM
Keep goin Alpha! ;)

LEXX
04-29-2009, 12:47 AM
Bear:: In many ways Air Combat enthusaists are like the men they emulate.
Nah, any real pilots like these gamers would get washed out, and if not, they would be killed off by the enemy, or by their squadron mates or ground crews, kinda self-cleansing.

The snot faced gamer behavior that brings down combat flight sim forums is not self cleansing.

LEXX
04-29-2009, 01:00 AM
Well to be honest, that really applies to some of the more snotty behaving members of gaming forums, not the majority of potential customers.


FF:: But the conclusion is too often also visible ingame: They rather want to kill that enemy fighter instead of thinking it logic: A wounded fighter is out of the game for the whole time he needs back to base AND the time back into combat, while you still get the points. A killed plane immediately can restart.
Poor game design. The server has to motivate historical behavior, but that can be difficult if the developer is focused on a more arcadish online dogfight. I would not blame the "arcade" gamer, but the arcade game developer.

robtek
04-29-2009, 10:44 AM
Sadly for the simulation Fans the market for a ww2 Airwar - SIMULATION is so small that it doesn´t matter for a company that has to sell to survive.
So, for the majority of the customers, the arcade part has to exist too.
What we can hope for that one can set the server - settings to full real, including for example the 1 death per map rule, to enforce the aim for survival - and of course enough simulation fans to populate those real "Full real" - Servers.

SlipBall
04-29-2009, 10:59 AM
I agree! dead is dead, so staying alive is the primary goal for me.


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f394/SlipBall/ScreenHunter_02Apr290551.jpg

yarbles
04-29-2009, 05:01 PM
In many ways Air Combat enthusaists are like the men they emulate. There is a saying about fighter pilots..

You can always tell a fighter pilot.. you just cant tell him much.

i was watching a movie yesterday on my day off on AMC. It was about the Berlin Airlift. As one of the planes was waiting for take-off, the co-pilot was working a crossword puzzle in the cockpit in the presence of the pilot and the navigator. The clue for the crossword puzzle was: another 5 letter word for 'idiot'. The Navigator instantly said 'pilot'. I laughed my ass off.

nearmiss
04-29-2009, 08:52 PM
Sadly for the simulation Fans the market for a ww2 Airwar - SIMULATION is so small that it doesn´t matter for a company that has to sell to survive.
So, for the majority of the customers, the arcade part has to exist too.
What we can hope for that one can set the server - settings to full real, including for example the 1 death per map rule, to enforce the aim for survival - and of course enough simulation fans to populate those real "Full real" - Servers.

So small..

Look at the hyperlobby servers, what do you see there? You see the largest number of people on the Forgotten battles servers, and it isn't dwindling.

One thing about air combat simulator enthusiasts they are very involved, and loyal. IMO, the genre leads everything else for continued interest.

Many of us have been around IL2 since 2001, doing online and offline warfare.

Look at SimHQ, the largest continuous viewers for all forums any day or time is the Il2 Sturmovik.

If Oleg released an addon today for IL2 sturmovik (not BOB SOW) the community would buy it, and not even blink.

Oleg, could improve some basic things in current IL2 and have an even better IL2 that would attract even more to the sim.

The arcade stuff never lasts. There are a co-zillion arcade flight sims that even the little kiddies lose interest in about 2 hours.

Sell the box and that's the end of it, for whom?

SlipBall
04-29-2009, 09:22 PM
So small..

Look at the hyperlobby servers, what do you see there? You see the largest number of people on the Forgotten battles servers, and it isn't dwindling.

One thing about air combat simulator enthusiasts they are very involved, and loyal. IMO, the genre leads everything else for continued interest.

Many of us have been around IL2 since 2001, doing online and offline warfare.

Look at SimHQ, the largest continuous viewers for all forums any day or time is the Il2 Sturmovik.

If Oleg released an addon today for IL2 sturmovik (not BOB SOW) the community would buy it, and not even blink.

Oleg, could improve some basic things in current IL2 and have an even better IL2 that would attract even more to the sim.

The arcade stuff never lasts. There are a co-zillion arcade flight sims that even the little kiddies lose interest in about 2 hours.

Sell the box and that's the end of it, for whom?




I thought that robtek was only asking for more tool's fot the full switch server's...I must be reading his post wrong:-)

nearmiss
04-29-2009, 09:43 PM
I read his first sentences and they didn't ring true for me.

looked at the last sentence as a kind of after thought remark.

robtek
04-29-2009, 11:27 PM
@ nearmiss
when you look at my post you see the word "simulation" in bold letters.
What i was trying to express is that il-2 has in the "full real" setting still too much of an arcade game.
Further when i look at the hyperlobby there is a very large percentage of players on so called "air-quake" Servers without Cockpit, externals on and both sides can fly all planes.
That is the kind of people who wouldn´t touch a "SIMULATION" with all the difficulties and "hardships" if they would get paid for it.
Of course a real SIMULATION would interest the "Flight Simulator" Flyers, but then the difference between carrying cattle from europe to the us of a and flying a combat sortie is huge.
Enough rambling, the floor is open.

nearmiss
04-30-2009, 12:30 AM
The only "full real" about it is---it is a "FULL REAL SIMULATION", in other words there is nothing "full real" about it. It's a simulation.

robtek
04-30-2009, 01:22 PM
nitpickers usually have very few friends :-)

SlipBall
04-30-2009, 10:58 PM
Just more example's of the dreaded aggressive attitudes:-P:grin:

IceFire
04-30-2009, 11:11 PM
@ nearmiss
when you look at my post you see the word "simulation" in bold letters.
What i was trying to express is that il-2 has in the "full real" setting still too much of an arcade game.
Further when i look at the hyperlobby there is a very large percentage of players on so called "air-quake" Servers without Cockpit, externals on and both sides can fly all planes.
That is the kind of people who wouldn´t touch a "SIMULATION" with all the difficulties and "hardships" if they would get paid for it.
Of course a real SIMULATION would interest the "Flight Simulator" Flyers, but then the difference between carrying cattle from europe to the us of a and flying a combat sortie is huge.
Enough rambling, the floor is open.

I'm not sure if you quite grasp what a truely arcade like experience is but IL-2 earns its right as a full on air combat simulation. That is that it does its best to simulate reality given the available tools for such a simulation.

Don't mistake the people who fly on a particular server as enjoying only one kind of mode either. I like to play on the "full switch" servers sometimes as well as on the more moderate and "arcade" like servers where things are less accurate and generaly faster paced. Each of these offers me different experiences and I enjoy them all in different ways. And I'm not alone...not in the slightest.

Yes the game could be made more complex and "more real" but at the end of the day its still a matter of sitting next to your computer and playing on a flat screen. If you want to do the real thing then sign up to be a fighter pilot tomorrow! :)

LEXX
05-01-2009, 01:10 AM
There are ways to make a "realistic(tm)" combat sim immersive enough so you don't need arcade gameplay for some folks. We assume some players are only attracted to what we might call arcade.

The Sims developers have not figured this out yet.

The trick is look at the success of the more slow paced combat sims like subsims and navy sims, and the tank sims which really push the environment modelling. The last thing related to air combat is dogfighting, and no sim has ever attempted to model the air warfare environment which is one way to create immersion. Someday the developers will figure this out...Hopefully.

nearmiss
05-01-2009, 02:24 AM
I noticed your quotation from the Ray Ban Jockey. LOL

Wonder where he went?

I think we'd still have trim on a slider, if he hadn't made so many people mad.

Funny thing is, he even posted a workaround after Oleg castrated the trim and it worked.

danjama
05-06-2009, 01:46 PM
I am also somebody that enjoys both full switch and arcade from time to time. It very much depends on how much time you have to fly, what mood you are in (If i just want to kill for a quick fix then arcade is the way to go) and also where my friends are flying.

However, i'll be the first to throw up a full switch level bombing co-op if people want to join. However, 95% of the time, co-op flyers are uninterested in externals off, so there is no market for it.

Funny thread BTW. It show's the exact characteristics we are all thinking of.

virre89
05-06-2009, 04:29 PM
One word, "Zapatista" the trouble maker of the trouble makers..