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-   -   Luftwaffe bombers (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=38710)

EJGr.Ost_Caspar 02-16-2013 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceFire (Post 497587)
I wouldn't completely rule out the Do17. The Wellington is also in Cliffs of Dover but it will be in 4.12...

The Wellington in 4.12 is a MK.III - a bit out already of the BoB phase. ;)

IceFire 02-16-2013 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar (Post 497589)
The Wellington in 4.12 is a MK.III - a bit out already of the BoB phase. ;)

True that! And definitely not a BoB only type aircraft... Wellingtons used throughout the war. When they were retired from Europe operations they were still over other theatres and in Burma.

hafu1939 02-16-2013 11:02 PM

I honestly disagree. Do 17 wasn`t present only in the BoB. SCW (E, F, P), Poland (E, M, P, Z), Norway (P), BoF, Balkans, Eastern front – Do 17s were flown in all these campaigns.
Do 217E-2, E-4 – +1.

IceFire 02-16-2013 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hafu1939 (Post 497593)
I honestly disagree. Do 17 wasn`t present only in the BoB. SCW (E, F, P), Poland (E, M, P, Z), Norway (P), BoF, Balkans, Eastern front – Do 17s were flown in all these campaigns.
Do 217E-2, E-4 – +1.

Of those mentioned we have only a tiny piece of Norway and lots of Eastern Front. But it's more than just being flown... was it a major or significant type in a huge way? I could be wrong... I was about the G3M Nell bomber but my understanding is the the Do17 design had reached the end by 1941 and was replaced. I can't find any significant actions it fought. Perhaps Finland used the Do17 the most after 1941.

Again... if faced with a decision between types. I'd rather have the one that saw more use across a greater range of dates and scenarios rather than the more obscure one that isn't easily used as a historical type. A Do17 would be cool... don't get my wrong. But a Do217, it's direct successor, would be so much more useful as a flyable aircraft - IMHO. I just see it as a matter of a lot of time invested in doing a project... I'd love for it to be maximally useful. And if we're going by the premise of the OP... then we already have the Ju88 and the He111 representing two excellent early war Luftwaffe bombers. We have a lack of mid and later war bombers available as flyable. Exception being the Ar234.

ElAurens 02-17-2013 12:27 AM

Please correct me if I'm wrong in this, but won't most German bombers pretty much grounded in 1944 as scarce fuel was allocated to fighters for home defense?

If so it seems like a waste of resources to model late types.

IceFire 02-17-2013 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElAurens (Post 497597)
Please correct me if I'm wrong in this, but won't most German bombers pretty much grounded in 1944 as scarce fuel was allocated to fighters for home defense?

If so it seems like a waste of resources to model late types.

Not all. KG/100 for example used guided rockets (I forget which type) on bridges around the time of the Seelow Heights battle... just before the Belorussian Front moved on Berlin. They were flying the Do217.

Some Me410s would have been in operation fairly late on as well... but you're right that the priority was for the fighter defenses by that point. But I think by late bombers were talking about types that were fairly active and busy during 1942 and 1943 with some more limited use in 1944 and 1945.

Juri_JS 02-17-2013 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElAurens (Post 497597)
Please correct me if I'm wrong in this, but won't most German bombers pretty much grounded in 1944 as scarce fuel was allocated to fighters for home defense?

If so it seems like a waste of resources to model late types.

The torpedo bombers from KG-26 based in Norway were also active in early 1945. The planes flown were the Ju 88A-17 and the Ju 188A-3. I think the last combat mission against an Allied convoy was in February 1945.
The reconnaissance squadrons in Norway were also using the Ju-88 and Ju-188. They even had a few Ar-234.

Fenice_1965 02-17-2013 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceFire (Post 497594)
Of those mentioned we have only a tiny piece of Norway and lots of Eastern Front. But it's more than just being flown... was it a major or significant type in a huge way? I could be wrong... I was about the G3M Nell bomber but my understanding is the the Do17 design had reached the end by 1941 and was replaced. I can't find any significant actions it fought. Perhaps Finland used the Do17 the most after 1941.

Again... if faced with a decision between types. I'd rather have the one that saw more use across a greater range of dates and scenarios rather than the more obscure one that isn't easily used as a historical type. A Do17 would be cool... don't get my wrong. But a Do217, it's direct successor, would be so much more useful as a flyable aircraft - IMHO. I just see it as a matter of a lot of time invested in doing a project... I'd love for it to be maximally useful. And if we're going by the premise of the OP... then we already have the Ju88 and the He111 representing two excellent early war Luftwaffe bombers. We have a lack of mid and later war bombers available as flyable. Exception being the Ar234.

Btw Icefire is right from another point of view. It is rare to use the Do17 because we lack the early war planes usually needed to make a scenario around it (early spits and 109 first). I agree on the fact that it would be' cool to have it.

gaunt1 02-17-2013 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceFire (Post 497587)
Seems like if we had the Do217K-1/K-2 modelled internally it would be no difference to have a M-1... just engine differences.

Yes, exactly. The M was the same as the K, but with DB-603A engines. It boosted the top speed from 515-520 to 560, so it was the fastest bomber of LW built in significant numbers.

Furio 02-17-2013 12:45 PM

I know that we’re talking of a sim, so we should not look for “balancing”, but mid-war period is overall more playable. Luftwaffe bombers had not much meaningful use after the beginning of 1944, and exactly the same can be said for the Japanese. However, the Do217 entered service in late 1941, so it would make a lot of sense to have it.


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