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Sternjaeger II 05-08-2012 05:12 PM


Originally Posted by raaaid (Post 421977)
oh i just thought stern might be anoyed at my threads getting so many answers and his ignored so i tried to help him

does that really make me a troll or a nice guy

whos really the troll here?

lol that's the true nature Raaaid, not too different from the rest of us after all.. u r such a smarty-pants ;)

swiss 05-08-2012 05:46 PM


Originally Posted by Flanker35M (Post 421924)

Gröfaz had a great vision about the Me262 for being a "Verteidigung Waffe" aka Weapon of Retaliation thus it was to be a bomber. But too late did Gröfaz approve the fighter role and so on. Nevertheless the world's first operational jet fighter.

Verteidigung or Vergeltung?

badfinger 05-08-2012 07:53 PM


Originally Posted by Sven (Post 421863)
It wasn't dumb at all, it was needed on the West-front in case on an invasion, the fast jet fighters could evade flak and fighters to strike down on the ships.
That was the plan. The me-262 appeared too late in action to achieve that, by the time they appeared in larger numbers a lot of me-262s were already in the fighter role.

Thanks for posting that video!

I think there could have been enough 262's for both roles, if the Germans had stopped building other aircraft, such as the ME-109, HE-111, ME-163, HE-162, FW-190D (although it is my favorite) and stop working on all of those wild "1946" paper airplanes. They also needed to concentrate on getting the jet engines more reliable.

The just had too many irons in the fire.

Even then, with the P-51 escorting the bombers to Berlin and back, they couldn't have stopped the massive bombing raids.


CadMan 05-09-2012 12:38 AM

Restored Avro Anson bomber ready to fly !
Restored Avro Anson bomber ready to fly 1

Link to engine test

Sternjaeger II 05-09-2012 12:41 AM

Nice! Now I'm by no means an Anson expert, but if memory serves the undercarriage rear arm was a bit beefier than that? It always struck me as resembling a steel beam, whilst this one has thing bracing?

WTE_Galway 05-09-2012 12:43 AM

Interesting, most people focus on Galland's comments about the 262 where he talks about Hitlers mistake using it as a bomber.

Galland also believed its use as a fighter could only prolong the war and cause more suffering, he did not believe it would have brought a victory to Germany.


Galland: I had been telling Hitler for over a year, since my first flight in an Me-262, that only Focke Wulf Fw-190 fighter production should continue in conventional aircraft, to discontinue the Me-109, which was outdated, and to focus on building a massive jet-fighter force. I was in East Prussia for a preview of the jet, which was fantastic, a totally new development. This was 1943, and I was there with Professor Willy Messerschmitt and other engineers responsible for the development. The fighter was almost ready for mass production at that time, and Hitler wanted to see a demonstration. When the 262 was brought out for his viewing at Insterburg, and I was standing there next to him, Hitler was very impressed. He asked the professor, 'Is this aircraft able to carry bombs?' Well, Messerschmitt said, 'Yes, my Führer, it can carry for sure a 250-kilogram bomb, perhaps two of them.' In typical Hitler fashion, he said 'Well, nobody thought of this! This is the Blitz (lightning) bomber I have been requesting for years. No one thought of this. I order that this 262 be used exclusively as a Blitz bomber, and you, Messerschmitt, have to make all the necessary preparations to make this feasible.' This was really the beginning of the misuse of the 262, as five bomber wings were supposed to be equipped with the jet. These bomber pilots had no fighter experience, such as combat flying or shooting, which is why so many were shot down. They could only escape by outrunning the fighters in pursuit. This was the greatest mistake surrounding the 262, and I believe the 262 could have been made operational as a fighter at least a year and a half earlier and built in large enough numbers so that it could have changed the air war. It would most certainly not have changed the final outcome of the war, for we had already lost completely, but it would have probably delayed the end, since the Normandy invasion on June 6, 1944, would probably not have taken place, at least not successfully if the 262 had been operational. I certainly think that just 300 jets flown daily by the best fighter pilots would have had a major impact on the course of the air war. This would have, of course, prolonged the war, so perhaps Hitler's misuse of this aircraft was not such a bad thing after all.

Sternjaeger II 05-09-2012 12:49 AM

Good ol' Dolfo...

sometimes I wonder what these folks went through deep inside, it must have been such a hard experience going through rise and fall and still keep your chin up despite knowing you had fought for one of the cruelest, most sanguinary dictators ever.

AndyJWest 05-09-2012 12:53 AM

I think that the undercarriage may have been substantially revised over development. According to Wikipedia, the Mk I had manually operated gear "which required no less than 140 turns of the hand crank by the pilot"! Later marks had hydraulic retraction.

Actually, describing the Anson as a 'bomber' is a little optimistic...

WTE_Galway 05-09-2012 12:55 AM

Ansons, Halifaxs, Stirlings, Hampdens, Whitleys ... so many bombers that saw WWII service that are forgotten these days in favor of the one or two that made it into the movies :D

ElAurens 05-09-2012 01:32 AM

Very cool.

It's one of the planes I have wanted to fly in Clod since the beginning.

I have a 1/72 scale Airfix model of one that I purchased when I was in London, ahem, 40 years ago this summer.

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