Official 1C Company forum

Official 1C Company forum (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/index.php)
-   IL-2 Sturmovik (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/forumdisplay.php?f=98)
-   -   Friday 2010-09-24 Dev. update and Discussion (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=16627)

mazex 09-24-2010 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speculum jockey (Post 184259)
They're tracers, but the very first thing when I thought of when I looked at that screen shot was this. . . .

http://i52.tinypic.com/35kitzo.jpg

Hopefully they'll get that ironed out so that it isn't perfectly synched all the time. After a second of of firing the tracers would be closer to alternating than perfectly lined up on each side.

Nice edit but have you ever seen a still shot of a tracer? They actually look like this as the bullet moves a few meters in the 1/125 of a second the shutter is open ;) Do the maths yourself... Suppose a camera shutter speed of 1/125 and and bullet speed of about 800 m/s for a .303... 800/125 = 6,4 metres... Yepp - those lasers look like they are something like that...

In a movie I'm sure they will look OK (I hope!)

Jaws2002 09-24-2010 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speculum jockey (Post 184259)
They're tracers, but the very first thing when I thought of when I looked at that screen shot was this. . . .

(Some stupid composite image to prove the poster can use photoshop:rolleyes:)

Hopefully they'll get that ironed out so that it isn't perfectly synched all the time. After a second of of firing the tracers would be closer to alternating than perfectly lined up on each side.

First the tracers are not perfectly synched. If you look closer you'll see that.
Two. The tracers are not texture based from what i understand. They are GENERATED by the lighting engine. The tracer is nothing but a small flame at the end of the bullet. You move the bullet fast trough the air the eye can't keep up with the speed and that's why you see the tracer as a line. Straight line. You'll have the same effect in the game, where the lengh of the tracer is dependant on shutter speed and lighting conditions. This kind of effect is best seen in a dynamic way (in a movie).

So until you post this kind of juvenile images next time, have this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...s/cluecopy.jpg

speculum jockey 09-24-2010 04:38 PM

I know what tracers look like, I've posted a few vids in another thread. It's not how they look, it's that they look really fake when they are perfectly lined up beside each other. MG's will not sync up like that, but every pic I've seen of them have them lines up in pairs like a tie-fighter from star wars.

It's not that they look like lasers, it's that they are moving in perfect pairs.

http://i53.tinypic.com/ojf4fm.jpg

MG's do not stay in synch since there will always be one that starts firing first, or one that has a slightly higher rate of fire.

swiss 09-24-2010 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazex (Post 184313)
Nice edit but have you ever seen a still shot of a tracer? They actually look like this as the bullet moves a few meters in the 1/125 of a second the shutter is open ;) Do the maths yourself... Suppose a camera shutter speed of 1/125 and and bullet speed of about 800 m/s for a .303... 800/125 = 6,4 metres... Yepp - those lasers look like they are something like that...

In a movie I'm sure they will look OK (I hope!)

unless those are indeed lasers, you'll have to add the speed of the airplane which is firing them.

Splitter 09-24-2010 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt (Post 184297)
I can't say to other people what is important and what isn't, everyone has their own preferences.

What i would like to see however is some balance in it all. Nitpicking members and rivet coutners are a valuable resource, believe it or not. They will spot the mistakes first and they will campaign to get them fixed. They should be allowed to say their piece. On the other hand, i don't expect small details to take precedence over bigger ones.

For example, i too saw the duplicated serial numbers on the guns, it's hard to miss since it's stamped on such a prominent part of the gun. However, this won't break the game for me. What would break the game then?

Well, if we only had 4 flyable aircraft and less than 10 in total, that would break the game because they would be insufficient to render the battle of Britain accurately, but luckily we'll be getting more than 10 flyables and who knows how much more AI.

If we didn't have ground units to populate the environment, that would break the game for me because the game's world would be lifeless. However, for months and years during past development updates all we saw was ground vehicles, flak batteries, sound spotting stations and ships. The game world seems to be bursting at the seams with "supporting actors". So, no harm done there either.

If we didn't have an evolution and a step-up from IL2 in FM, DM, aircraft systems modelling and support for the interfaces to control them, i would be seriously disappointed. But, we've been told we're getting all of that, so this is also covered.

What about the small details then? I won't lie, i'd like to see every little bit. It's just that it won't ruin the experience for me if the trim tabs are a bit bigger or the serial numbers on the guns are all the same. I still consider them very important details, just not game breaking. That doesn't mean i don't welcome it when people spot the small mistakes here and there.

I think the best course of action would be to separate our requests into categories. If the guns don't fire under the player's control then we have a top priority issue. If they work fine, are modelled correctly and they only need a few details to touch up, it's something that can be done in a patch. ;)

In any case, it seems like it won't be too long until this baby hits the shelves, so we're about to get hands-on experience at last.

Oh boy, that's when the real whining will commence:
"My plane handles so weird compared to IL2, i wanted more realism but now i can't fly, where does all this torque come from?"
"My engine keeps quitting, what did i do wrong?"
"My guns won't fire when i fly at high altitudes, what's wrong with them?"

Not to mention the FM debates...sometimes i feel sorry for the development team :-P

All of THIS!

I must also say that after seeing the shots of ground vehicles, I want to dust off my BF 1942 tanker skillz and have some land battles :). I'll never see the marking from the air as I whiz by, but I could see myself trying to out-maneuver a Panzer hiding behind a hedge row! Yeah, those vehicle shots are that good, very inspiring.

I see all sorts of piloting tests in this sim. Not just yank and bank, but a real understanding of flying an airplane being needed.

Color me excited.

Splitter

Rall 09-24-2010 04:52 PM

I have one suggestion. I think that when your sitting in the cockpit you should be able to look down and see the pilots legs, feet, right arm with hand on stick and left arm with hand on throttle.

It's just not right to look down & see nothing. Am I right?


Great update by the way!

philip.ed 09-24-2010 04:54 PM

Very nice update, some awesome features shown.

Grass and trees are coming along, but both of these feautures IMO need tweaking for how they look from a distance. Anyways, this is just a small incy-wincy knit-pick.

Thanks for the comments as well Oleg. It's looking like the start of Il-2 again; a sim that set so many standards and just got better and better. Considering the amount of new features added to Il-2, I can't imagine what new features could appear for SoW.... :o

Jimko 09-24-2010 05:04 PM

Fine update, amazing pictures!

Thanks for the "I would like to say very important things" commentary, Oleg. Very, very interesting and encouraging.

speculum jockey 09-24-2010 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaws2002 (Post 184316)
First the tracers are not perfectly synched. If you look closer you'll see that.
Two. The tracers are not texture based from what i understand. They are GENERATED by the lighting engine. The tracer is nothing but a small flame at the end of the bullet. You move the bullet fast trough the air the eye can't keep up with the speed and that's why you see the tracer as a line. Straight line. You'll have the same effect in the game, where the lengh of the tracer is dependant on shutter speed and lighting conditions. This kind of effect is best seen in a dynamic way (in a movie).

So until you post this kind of juvenile images next time, have this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...s/cluecopy.jpg

You know, there are a lot of people out there who can help you with your aspergers. The sooner you seek treatment the more they can do for you.

Here is my opinion on tracers, first post of this page, go to the second line before the first video and start reading. Please read it first.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...racers&page=19

At no point did I say the tracers do not look right from a lighting point of view (although that could be inferred from the pic I posted). Below the picture in my first post I stated it was the pairing/spacing/synchronizing that looked unrealistic, and something I stand by.

Hope you didn't give yourself a stroke from all that pent up rage.

Old_Canuck 09-24-2010 05:10 PM

trouble at home
 
Oleg, we are a troublesome group of people at times but we are almost like a family after all these years thanks to your open communication with us. If you have troubles "at home" that, Sir, is your top priority. I will be praying for things to get better in your home life.

=XIII=Shea 09-24-2010 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hecke (Post 184293)
Oleg, please tell us who the publisher is.
It's time now for an ingame video if you are really that close to release and want to make some serious money. Should be the publishers interest, too.

Seeing the oleg is using 1c forum,s,it must be 1c that is publishing it

=69.GIAP=TOOZ 09-24-2010 05:29 PM

Normally 1C publishes the title for Russia and the former soviet republics. Ubisoft in the past handled pretty much everywhere outside of that. I have a feeling it's gonna be the same this time around, but who distributes the game in Europe and the USA I don't know.

whatnot 09-24-2010 05:32 PM

OMG @ the screenshots and Oleg's comment about the status!

Today I'll start browsing for computer components from the top of the list. Oleg's comment can't mean that there would still be several breakthroughs in CPU & GPU technology before the release and I want to be ready with my über rig, vacation, six pack and a deported family when this baby hits the shelfs! :-):-)

I'm mesmerized when in the middle of all this fireworks someone can still open up the old rotten can of tracer talk and texture cries. I don't know about you but after what we've been going through the 6 or whatever years of SOW wait I want to be up in the air with it on friday evenings and not drooling over screenshots. It looks fabulous and rich enough with content, whatever will be wrong with it during the release will be fixed in patches as it has been for the past 10 years with IL2. I doubt there will be much unsatisfied customers when they start clicking their new high rest dynamically lit cockpits and hear the spitfire come to life!

Fantastic update and all the best to the home and business fronts and to all the forum inhabitants! :grin:

=XIII=Shea 09-24-2010 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =69.GIAP=TOOZ (Post 184335)
Normally 1C publishes the title for Russia and the former soviet republics. Ubisoft in the past handled pretty much everywhere outside of that. I have a feeling it's gonna be the same this time around, but who distributes the game in Europe and the USA I don't know.

Dont mind if its ubisoft,aslong as they dont include the DRM crap:evil:

Oldschool61 09-24-2010 05:49 PM

ONe quick question. I think I remember a couple years ago Oleg mentioned that multiple humans could fly in same plane/bomber is this still the case because I would want to go as tail gunner occasionally and shoot up some fighters now and then??

Avimimus 09-24-2010 05:54 PM

I doubt it has changed. The free 4.10 patch for Il-2 has this feature btw.

mugen 09-24-2010 06:02 PM

Inside View
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rall (Post 184322)
I have one suggestion. I think that when your sitting in the cockpit you should be able to look down and see the pilots legs, feet, right arm with hand on stick and left arm with hand on throttle.

It's just not right to look down & see nothing. Am I right?
...

I instantly had this one in mind when i red your post :grin:

Thunderbolt56 09-24-2010 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 184191)
Ok, today I would like to say some important.

If you all remember, Il-2 was a sim that was setings some new standards in industry. Not all understand it in the beginning... however all things that were loaded in the engine and even were not using in the beginning - most of them were later working. Some technologies were copied by other deelopers (even not simers), some - still are uniquie.

And what I would like to say... BoB with its first generation will have also many things that probably will be working later in time step by step. But anyway with the first release it will also set some new standards in sim industry for WWII flight sims. Be sure.
We are doning a series from the beginning for the long life o the market, looking back for our expereince in the past, learnig good and bad things of Il-2 series. So now we put a lot of things that wil come in add-ons and new separate titles (for wich we will give ability to instal in the first one... say like was with Pacific fighters... but with more features). Already now there is a process of development for one of the several new sims (with such a feature to merge them).
If everything will be Ok with BoB on the market, then you all will see more and more coming nice titles and add-ons (both free and payware).

Not all things that I personally designed in the past will go in the release of BoB. But you all probably even don't know what was planned and partially already developed... :)
I dislike to open even partially this info now... simply wait. Don't think you will be dissapointed :)


X-day... release. This now will depending of publisher... and our fast woks over the bugs.
Bugs are present. The product is probably the most serious in industry in programming of features, internals, etc...
So I can't tell exact date right now. But we are close, very close in our works of final release version... We need to polish all the coming in final release features. I personally wouldn't release the product that have serious bugs that was known. It is our principle in the past.. it is now...

All for today... I need to switch off PC for packing....

Sorry for the errors in message. No time to correct...



Now THIS is meat and potatoes.

What a terrific update! Thanks Oleg.

Oldschool61 09-24-2010 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mugen (Post 184345)
I instantly had this one in mind when i red your post :grin:

Ive been harping on that as well. Some people think its more immersive to see an empty cockpit. Or claim its more important to be able to see a non important gauge.

zakkandrachoff 09-24-2010 06:45 PM

this is a American gun cam video. is very similar to the armament of British in bob. only a little more big caliber.
look in the second 3 and in the second 20.
the bullets of the machine gun have a little and finest smoke tracer. that still missing in SOW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhWel...eature=related

and i still want my map in cockpit for fighters.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_AP-rb774dmQ/Ss...%20ENGLAND.JPG

philip.ed 09-24-2010 06:58 PM

The damage on the Heinkel, in particular in the cockpit, doesn't look like .303 hits to me....
does anyone else agree? Considering the placement of the Hurri, I'd imagine that it made the damage.

major_setback 09-24-2010 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avimimus (Post 184343)
I doubt it has changed. The free 4.10 patch for Il-2 has this feature btw.

This is the second time I heard a reference to this patch. Have I missed something? Did 4.10 come out when I was away on holiday?

Splitter 09-24-2010 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldschool61 (Post 184350)
Ive been harping on that as well. Some people think its more immersive to see an empty cockpit. Or claim its more important to be able to see a non important gauge.

As long as I can turn off the image of the virtual pilot, then fine :). I fall into the category of "some people" in that I don't want to see my virtual hands and feet. Plus, I'm not sure any gauges are insignificant.

No way SoW will be able to model size 14 shoes anyway!

Splitter

Robert 09-24-2010 07:20 PM

Best of luck in the move Mr. Maddox. More importantly, I hope things at home improve. In the scheme of things, despite the great comment about the closeness to the finished project, home takes precedence.

I know some schmoo posting on an anonymous forum doesn't add a lot of weight behind well wishing because of the anonymity, but you've brought a lot of entertainment and increased the desire for knowledge in an unknown portion of WW2. So while we aren't personal friends, your 'relation to the sim community' is an important one. Your communications have fueled a commitment to 1C/Maddox, your creation and community members.

Take care and I'll continue to hope for a great outcome for your home. To me that's more important than light effects, serial numbers and game release dates.

Peffi 09-24-2010 07:25 PM

Fixing some bugs, last tweaking, copying the DVD's, sending it out to the world. End of November I guess. I hope 1C will make some sort of copyprotection. Even though we on this forum will pay for Sow Bob, there are unfortunately many idiots that will try to copy it.

mazex 09-24-2010 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speculum jockey (Post 184318)
I know what tracers look like, I've posted a few vids in another thread. It's not how they look, it's that they look really fake when they are perfectly lined up beside each other. MG's will not sync up like that, but every pic I've seen of them have them lines up in pairs like a tie-fighter from star wars.

It's not that they look like lasers, it's that they are moving in perfect pairs.

http://i53.tinypic.com/ojf4fm.jpg

MG's do not stay in synch since there will always be one that starts firing first, or one that has a slightly higher rate of fire.

OK, sorry for the scramble then ;) I agree that the definitely should be more out of sync, as long as you don't say they should zig-zag "like they do in the gun cam movies" :)

swiss 09-24-2010 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rall (Post 184322)
I have one suggestion. I think that when your sitting in the cockpit you should be able to look down and see the pilots legs, feet, right arm with hand on stick and left arm with hand on throttle.

It's just not right to look down & see nothing. Am I right?


Great update by the way!

no, you're not.

swiss 09-24-2010 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mugen (Post 184345)
I instantly had this one in mind when i red your post :grin:

I seriously hesitated to click that link, when I read your post. lol

mazex 09-24-2010 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiss (Post 184319)
unless those are indeed lasers, you'll have to add the speed of the airplane which is firing them.

I was thinking of that while doing the math example but I was a bit unsure about the actual "speed limit" of a normal "non sub calibre" bullet, ie if the bullet has a built in problem with aerodynamic compression etc that makes 1000-1100 m/s extremely hard and that the bullet lose speed very fast after leaving the muzzle... But it sure is supersonic so I guess you are right!

zauii 09-24-2010 08:03 PM

Having Red Orchestra 2 and BOB next year (which is most likely) will give me an amazing orgasm.

Oleg Maddox 09-24-2010 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazex (Post 184313)
Nice edit but have you ever seen a still shot of a tracer? They actually look like this as the bullet moves a few meters in the 1/125 of a second the shutter is open ;) Do the maths yourself... Suppose a camera shutter speed of 1/125 and and bullet speed of about 800 m/s for a .303... 800/125 = 6,4 metres... Yepp - those lasers look like they are something like that...

In a movie I'm sure they will look OK (I hope!)

You are prefectly right (writing at home already...)
The leight of tracer depending of the sutter speed. As shorter shutter speed - shorter tracer fixed on the image.
If we will have the speed, say for example, 1/100000 sec, then we will see the light of tracer like the exhaust of small jet engine on a fixed image. But in reality the inertion of the human eye/brain is close to shutter speed of 1/125 sec fixing image.

In the beginning we have variable leight of tracers (Roman Denisking did right calculation and programmed it) depending of frame rate (which is really almost the same like shutter speed of camera, iof the frame rate is constant.)... But when we have slow frame rate of the game... the tracers had too great leight.
So now they are fixed as a middle possible for all realistic frame rates and human eye inertion.
You may see we really did the good job of searching and programming for such things...

To all:
About Z - tracers... when B-17II was sent.... I told already it is incorrect. Then told it I think more than 4 times later explaing slow speed sutter of camera and movement of the plane and camera relatively the optical axis that was on anoither place on previous frame.... Should be understandable even from this short description.

To all:
About sync. Shots of wing's guns are asynchronized. Be sure. With the serios research for the time between barrels it would be possible. including differences such as mechnical, explposions, etc... including electrical sync for the shot :) when it will be neccessary to use....

LukeFF 09-24-2010 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello (Post 184255)
All looks great, but I see the hurricane is firing nicely synced death rays.

I don't recall seeing those death rays the last time I fired a 7.92mm machine gun (when I was in the Army) - is that a detail still to be ironed out?

It's already been explained in the past that it's due to the game being paused when the pic was taken.

DD_crash 09-24-2010 08:07 PM

Thanks for the update Oleg
Quote:

Originally Posted by zauii (Post 184372)
Having Red Orchestra 2 and BOB next year (which is most likely) will give me an amazing orgasm.

Too much information there zauii ;0

Balkenkruez JG27 Farber 09-24-2010 08:10 PM

To: Oleg

Would it help (speed up) things if we pre-orderd BoB SoW, Im sure most of us would be more than happy to...

Keep up the good work.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a.../Farber003.jpg

LukeFF 09-24-2010 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rall (Post 184322)
I have one suggestion. I think that when your sitting in the cockpit you should be able to look down and see the pilots legs, feet, right arm with hand on stick and left arm with hand on throttle.

Already been said that it's not going to happen.

JG52Uther 09-24-2010 08:17 PM

Fantastic update Oleg thank you!

Tbag 09-24-2010 08:18 PM

Oleg, thank you very much for your answers today. In your first posts there is no mention of "WIP". Does that mean the screenshots you posted today represent closely the final release version?

Robert 09-24-2010 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DD_crash (Post 184376)
Thanks for the update Oleg

Too much information there zauii ;0


Yeah. I didn't need to know Red Orchestra was coming out too. :P

julien673 09-24-2010 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zauii (Post 184372)
Having Red Orchestra 2 and BOB next year (which is most likely) will give me an amazing orgasm.

+ 1

And new pc.... snif snif :rolleyes:

philip.ed 09-24-2010 08:23 PM

Great info Oleg.

I once asked you about barricaded fields and you asked me to send you info. Alas, I was too busy to do so at that time (and still am).
Did you ever research this for future inclusion? We both agreed it'd be a simple thing to model ;)

PilotError 09-24-2010 08:34 PM

Thanks for the update Oleg, and team.

Those screenshots look superb.:grin:

Your post telling us that it is getting close to being published has got me as excited as a little kid waiting for Christmas. LOL

I hope your problems at home are solved quickly and with a good outcome. As some posters have already said, that is your priority, and if need be, forget about us on the forums (even though we hang on your every word).

Again, nice update.

Redwan 09-24-2010 08:37 PM

Nice update, I like the shots showing planes (lightings, textures, reflections, shadowing ... are great) but the terrain looks strange to me. The vehicles seem to stand on a golf course and the grass is not dense enough. The ground looks too flat to me and the textures should be more photorealistic but maybe this is intentional, in order to spare some polygons to save the FPS or it's still WIP. Anyway, the general impression is very positive and realictic althought i think that in some views it looks too much like a slightly improved IL2 (but again WIP should be the reason).

I hope to see soon some screen with some anti-aliasing, it will mean that the problem with the graphic drivers are on a good way to be solved and that the release date is near ;-)

I would also like to say that I know that it must be a great challenge to build an ambitious sim like SOW BoB and I'm happy that there are guy's like Oleg who work with passion and take finencial risks to build us the sim we love and allow us to eat something more refinade than the usual microsoft s.. :rolleyes:

Good work Oleg, I wish you a lot of success !

Triggaaar 09-24-2010 08:45 PM

Thanks for the update Oleg

This promises to be a great WWII sim, so thanks again to you and the whole team

speculum jockey 09-24-2010 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 184374)
To all:
About sync. Shots of wing's guns are asynchronized. Be sure. With the serios research for the time between barrels it would be possible. including differences such as mechnical, explposions, etc... including electrical sync for the shot :) when it will be neccessary to use....

So do they initially start out synched and then rapidly fall out of synch? The pic posted today appears to have them synched.

Oleg Maddox 09-24-2010 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speculum jockey (Post 184394)
So do they initially start out synched and then rapidly fall out of synch? The pic posted today appears to have them synched.

Really even on the picture shown today visible that they are not started at the same time. They have realistic shift. Anyway, you'll see the differences when you will shot yourself later....

And try to imagine - there isn't each bullet with tracer and they are going from different barrells, some time are not symmetrical.

Rall 09-24-2010 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiss (Post 184363)
no, you're not.

Really? I didn't know pilots who flew in WWII had no arms or legs :rolleyes:

jippy13 09-24-2010 09:12 PM

Oleg wrote :..... But we are close, VERY close .......

These words are very important for me an for most of the fan in this forum, who are looking forward to the D-day.

Go, go, go Oleg !!

Thanks for thinking of us !!!!

Achilles97 09-24-2010 09:15 PM

Thank you for the update, Oleg. We are all anxiously awaiting the result of your and your team's hard work.

Blackdog_kt 09-24-2010 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balkenkruez JG27 Farber (Post 184377)
To: Oleg

Would it help (speed up) things if we pre-orderd BoB SoW, Im sure most of us would be more than happy to...

Keep up the good work.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a.../Farber003.jpg

+1

We want to give you our money early mr Maddox to make sure that we'll see not only SoW, but many more expansions after that :grin:

Chivas 09-24-2010 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rall (Post 184397)
Really? I didn't know pilots who flew in WWII had no arms or legs :rolleyes:

Can't you see your own hands and legs, or are you using some sort of Track IR method to move your stick and rudder.

kendo65 09-24-2010 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rall (Post 184322)
I have one suggestion. I think that when your sitting in the cockpit you should be able to look down and see the pilots legs, feet, right arm with hand on stick and left arm with hand on throttle.

It's just not right to look down & see nothing. Am I right?

Rall, we had this debate in depth (and this forum knows how to do 'in depth' :!: :!: :-x :shock: :rolleyes: :?: ) about 9 months ago!

Suggest you do a search to read the various opinions.

Short answer though is that it isn't going to happen. Better get used to it.

kendo65 09-24-2010 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rall (Post 184397)
Really? I didn't know pilots who flew in WWII had no arms or legs :rolleyes:

Douglas Bader...



:cool:


sorry!

Ernst 09-24-2010 10:00 PM

In the end Rudel was Flying with only one leg. And "kicking asses" !:grin:

Tree_UK 09-24-2010 10:04 PM

Oleg thanks for the update, you mention that some things you intended for the first release will not make it, can you you confirm that Direct X 11 and a dynamic weather system are not amongst the things you are leaving out, I ask because as of yet we haven't seen any of these.

Also will the aircraft skins and ground vehicles be treated to some weathering before release?

Could you also go more into depth on the things that wont make the initial release,


many thanks

SlipBall 09-24-2010 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 184191)
Ok, today I would like to say some important.

If you all remember, Il-2 was a sim that was setings some new standards in industry. Not all understand it in the beginning... however all things that were loaded in the engine and even were not using in the beginning - most of them were later working. Some technologies were copied by other deelopers (even not simers), some - still are uniquie.

And what I would like to say... BoB with its first generation will have also many things that probably will be working later in time step by step. But anyway with the first release it will also set some new standards in sim industry for WWII flight sims. Be sure.
We are doning a series from the beginning for the long life o the market, looking back for our expereince in the past, learnig good and bad things of Il-2 series. So now we put a lot of things that wil come in add-ons and new separate titles (for wich we will give ability to instal in the first one... say like was with Pacific fighters... but with more features). Already now there is a process of development for one of the several new sims (with such a feature to merge them).
If everything will be Ok with BoB on the market, then you all will see more and more coming nice titles and add-ons (both free and payware).

Not all things that I personally designed in the past will go in the release of BoB. But you all probably even don't know what was planned and partially already developed... :)
I dislike to open even partially this info now... simply wait. Don't think you will be dissapointed :)


X-day... release. This now will depending of publisher... and our fast woks over the bugs.
Bugs are present. The product is probably the most serious in industry in programming of features, internals, etc...
So I can't tell exact date right now. But we are close, very close in our works of final release version... We need to polish all the coming in final release features. I personally wouldn't release the product that have serious bugs that was known. It is our principle in the past.. it is now...

All for today... I need to switch off PC for packing....

Sorry for the errors in message. No time to correct...



The fat lady is ready to sing!...nice up-date, thanks

(quote)

X-day... release. This now will depending of publisher

And who may that be?????????:grin:

winny 09-24-2010 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speculum jockey (Post 184318)
I know what tracers look like, I've posted a few vids in another thread. It's not how they look, it's that they look really fake when they are perfectly lined up beside each other. MG's will not sync up like that, but every pic I've seen of them have them lines up in pairs like a tie-fighter from star wars.

It's not that they look like lasers, it's that they are moving in perfect pairs.

http://i53.tinypic.com/ojf4fm.jpg

MG's do not stay in synch since there will always be one that starts firing first, or one that has a slightly higher rate of fire.

Your lines mean nothing other than all the tracers are moving at the same speed and so are the same length.. you should be measuring distance from the gun barrel, the ones nearest the mgs are clearly out of sync.

BigC208 09-24-2010 10:43 PM

@Tree_UK, I think Oleg is leaving some things out that are going to be used in the follow up theaters. The way I understood it is that he's going to keep it under wraps to prevent other gamedevelopers to "borrow" these items. Aparently even some non flightsim games used some of Oleg's ideas in the past before Il2 was even released.

Oh, great update by the way. Shame there is no blitzkrieg action with all that armour being modelled. Guess we have to wait untill 42/43 before we can go after them with Typhoons.:)

Rall 09-24-2010 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kendo65 (Post 184410)
Rall, we had this debate in depth (and this forum knows how to do 'in depth' :!: :!: :-x :shock: :rolleyes: :?: ) about 9 months ago!

Suggest you do a search to read the various opinions.

Short answer though is that it isn't going to happen. Better get used to it.


Sorry, I didn't know it had already been brought up.

Blakduk 09-24-2010 10:44 PM

Love the update guys- this sim is looking VERY impressive.
I can't wait for a video of these elements put together- i'm really looking forward to how the animation of bomber crews bailing will look. The short teaser you published of a pilot bailing from a Spitfire made me hungry for more.
The screenshot from a few weeks ago of the crew of a Ju88 jettisoning the rear portion of the canopy made me very curious- how did a Ju88 crew bail?

Necrobaron 09-24-2010 10:45 PM

Great update!
________
Gr Engine

Bloblast 09-24-2010 10:53 PM

X-day is soon Oleg stated. Best news since the announcement from May 2006!

Feuerfalke 09-24-2010 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winny (Post 184420)
Your lines mean nothing other than all the tracers are moving at the same speed and so are the same length.. you should be measuring distance from the gun barrel, the ones nearest the mgs are clearly out of sync.

True.

The MGs are in perfect synchronization, when you pull the trigger. The different rates of fire then desynch the MGs more and more. This is very nicely represented in the screenshot. Also note that your lines are not parallel. So you can see that the bullets also don't follow the exact same line of flight.

AdMan 09-24-2010 10:59 PM

I hope there are blades of grass visible around the houses and trees like there are around the vehicle tires/treads

Snuff_Pidgeon 09-24-2010 11:43 PM

.
 
Fantastic!

zakkandrachoff 09-25-2010 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree_UK (Post 184416)
Oleg thanks for the update, you mention that some things you intended for the first release will not make it, can you you confirm that Direct X 11 and a dynamic weather system are not amongst the things you are leaving out, I ask because as of yet we haven't seen any of these.

Also will the aircraft skins and ground vehicles be treated to some weathering before release?

Could you also go more into depth on the things that wont make the initial release,


many thanks

hope oleg are talking about trees! are very complex. so much resources for trees taken from the videocard. or options low quality trees at least.

in 2008 talk about clouds have its own turbulences and dynamic weather system. That stuff take so much resources of the cpu and memory.

I can't think of any other think right now that oleg concerned

Skoshi Tiger 09-25-2010 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kestrel79 (Post 184304)
Oleg,

I hope your publisher can release a "Special Edition" that is a few more bucks and includes a few more flyable planes or something like that.

What a great idea! They could make a DVD (Double Layered) with a compliation of ALL the whining posts from this fourum! Just to remind us of what we've put them through! ;)

All the best in your move Oleg, and remember not to leave your file server on the curb when your team is packing up all the office equipment!


Cheers!

IceFire 09-25-2010 12:38 AM

I sincerely hope that we don't get into the console craze of releasing exclusive content. WWII warbirds are different then getting a reskinned fictional gun or a modified look to a unit that everyone has. That sort of thing has it's place... but not here.

Banish that idea :)

ElAurens 09-25-2010 12:44 AM

Wow!!!!!

Just, wow!

Skoshi Tiger 09-25-2010 12:47 AM

[QUOTE=Rall;184322]I have one suggestion. I think that when your sitting in the cockpit you should be able to look down and see the pilots legs, feet, right arm with hand on stick and left arm with hand on throttle.

It's just not right to look down & see nothing. Am I right?
QUOTE]

Yes, but its just as wrong to hit a button on your keyboard and the pilots hands don't move or even worse - go through a series of canned animated movements AFTER you selected the switch, or not being able to see your throttle setting because your hand is on the mixture control. (hey how did the sim know I wanted to move the mixture- see what I'm getting at?)

Some times you need to sit back and remember that there are only so many things that can be done, we are after all talking about a PC Simulation.

This topic has been debated numerous times in the past. The answer is that there will not be one solution that will satisfy everyone and that it's up to the developers to create the sim the way they see fit, and we will either decide to purchace it based on the features that it offers or we won't.


Cheers!

Skoshi Tiger 09-25-2010 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiss (Post 184319)
unless those are indeed lasers, you'll have to add the speed of the airplane which is firing them.

Spitfires with lasers! Cool! Hey I'ld pay extra for laser! ;)

Skoshi Tiger 09-25-2010 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazex (Post 184368)
I was thinking of that while doing the math example but I was a bit unsure about the actual "speed limit" of a normal "non sub calibre" bullet, ie if the bullet has a built in problem with aerodynamic compression etc that makes 1000-1100 m/s extremely hard and that the bullet lose speed very fast after leaving the muzzle... But it sure is supersonic so I guess you are right!

The MKVIIIZ round (Used in the vicker MG and I assume the Colt-Brownings) was 2550fps (~777m/s). Although I haven't seen velocities for the tracer, incendiary and AP round, I assume (bad mistake I know) they would try to match the balistics of the Ball Ammo for sighting purposes.

Cheers

Foo'bar 09-25-2010 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schallmoser (Post 184308)
foobar, I'm doing it again - direct link to your site. Entschuldigung ;-)

hey, kein Ding ;)

Splitter 09-25-2010 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger (Post 184457)
The MKVIIIZ round (Used in the vicker MG and I assume the Colt-Brownings) was 2550fps (~777m/s). Although I haven't seen velocities for the tracer, incendiary and AP round, I assume (bad mistake I know) they would try to match the balistics of the Ball Ammo for sighting purposes.

Cheers

Not really from what I understand. The ball ammo and the tracer rounds had different velocities and, therefore, a different amount of "bullet drop".

Being a firearms enthusiast, I can tell you it wouldn't matter much up close. But at any range, it would certainly matter. The velocity of the tracer probably also fell off faster.

I have read several times that some units replaced their tracer rounds with ball or AP and actually got better results.

I know also that ball and AP ammo have slightly different accuracy. Fire each at the same point from a fixed rest and you will most likely get two different points of impact (good luck finding a range that allows AP though lol).

For the games, I have always relied on tracers for gauging lead shots shots...until IL-2. For some reason, and probably having more to do with me than IL-2, it doesn't work for me in IL-2. I have to try an educated guess on lead and look for the bullet impacts, then make adjustments.

splitter

Splitter 09-25-2010 01:49 AM

Didn't feel like editing the previous post....

Rate of fire and length of time firing matters too, even in a .50 cal.

A "cold bore" shot from an average barrel is going to have a different point of impact than a shot from a fouled, hot barrel. As the barrel heats up in an automatic weapon, the point of impact will continue to change.

Fire an automatic weapon in a long burst and you increase the chance of of a jam due to heat issues, mostly in the chamber. Barrels and chambers get REALLY hot, especially with higher velocity rounds.

I'm not sure these things can be modeled in a sim though. I can't remember having an machine gun jam without battle damage in IL-2 (maybe I am just lucky). I do know that in the old days of Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, firing a .50 cal in a turn pulling G's was rolling the dice as far as a jam went. My understanding was that earlier P-51 models had such problems due to the alignment of the MG's.

Splitter

Buglord 09-25-2010 02:22 AM

Thanks oleg, very close is what ive been waiting to hear for ages. :)

Skoshi Tiger 09-25-2010 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitter (Post 184470)
Didn't feel like editing the previous post....

Rate of fire and length of time firing matters too, even in a .50 cal.

A "cold bore" shot from an average barrel is going to have a different point of impact than a shot from a fouled, hot barrel. As the barrel heats up in an automatic weapon, the point of impact will continue to change.

Splitter

Hi,

As you said there are large range of factors to take into concideration.

I've been trying to find some data for the exotic .303 rounds but it's a bit hard. You find info about the standard ball ammo. The MkVII (standard infantry round in WWII) and MKVIII (boat tailed round for vickers MG) is about 2440fps and the MkVIIZ comes in at 2550fps but I haven't found anything about the various forms of tracer, incendiary and AP rounds.

Tracers would be interesting as they would change mass as they burnt off their filling.

Cheers!

Splitter 09-25-2010 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger (Post 184476)
Hi,

As you said there are large range of factors to take into concideration.

I've been trying to find some data for the exotic .303 rounds but it's a bit hard. You find info about the standard ball ammo. The MkVII (standard infantry round in WWII) and MKVIII (boat tailed round for vickers MG) is about 2440fps and the MkVIIZ comes in at 2550fps but I haven't found anything about the various forms of tracer, incendiary and AP rounds.

Tracers would be interesting as they would change mass as they burnt off their filling.

Cheers!

I'll send some emails to some of my "ballistics" friends, but no promises as what you seek is outside of their normal realm of expertise (small arms). Ballistics is like statistics in my mind....what seems to make sense is not always fact. Their are strange factors that come into play and some exponential changes from round to round that most of us would not expect. (long range shooters have a "geekiness" all their own lol)."

I would think that the heat form the tracer would dissipate energy....but then again the round would be getting lighter. Does it have the same powder chard to begin with? The same grain weight? I have no idea.

Splitter

Hunden 09-25-2010 05:01 AM

Oleg thanx for taking time and giving a written update as well as the friday pics. I hope all goes well at home and at work.

Defender 09-25-2010 05:10 AM

Pictures look great, very VERY excited about this title and appreciate in advance the level of detail you've put into it and plan on implementing into it in the future.

As far as the "lasers" go...I think we owe Oleg a little respect in this department. These are in no way FINAL so given the other painstaking details being modeled I think it's pretty safe to say he'll get the tracers as right looking as possible come release.

FG28_Kodiak 09-25-2010 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blakduk (Post 184427)
... how did a Ju88 crew bail?

From a english translated Manual:
9. Jumping with the parachute.
Parachute jump is only performed on the order of the pilot of the aeroplane.
There are two alternative exit routes:
1) Through the ventral hatch,
2) Through the ejected canopy.
If possible jump is done through the ventral hatch, because when exiting from the ejected canopy it
possible that the jumper be injured by the tail assembly.
T o p o i n t 1 . J e t t i s o n i n g t h e C - g u n n e r p o s i t i o n .
Trailing antenna in pulled in or cut.
First the latch on the attachment rope is detached from the static ventral gondola.
Safety on the red lever on the bottom of the gondola is removed and lever is turned.
Lower part of C-gunner position falls off.
T o p o i n t 2 . J e t t i s o n i n g o f t h e c a n o p y .
First the armour plates are removed.
All crew members must be fastened with seat belts.
Safety on a hand lever high behind the frame 6 is removed by the wireless operator or the observer,
and he also pushes around with open grip, without holding the lever in hand. The rear part of the
canopy is detached and the air stream wrenches it clear from the aeroplane.

You can find the complete Manual here:
http://www.ju88.equitatura.de/downloads.htm

airmalik 09-25-2010 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger (Post 184450)
What a great idea! They could make a DVD (Double Layered) with a compliation of ALL the whining posts from this fourum! Just to remind us of what we've put them through! ;)

LOL!

Maybe Oleg Maddox Games (cool initials) can allow fans of the sim to buy a spot on a plane where the user's name or initials could be carved in the texture. Or users could pay to have their mug used as the default texture for pilots instead of the hitler like axis pilots we've seen.

Of course, placement on the more popular planes would cost more. Even better, put these placements on EBay and let em at it! I imagine the default pilot texture for a Spitfire would fetch good money.

I wouldn't mind a pub near some obscure airfield named after me :)

Rodolphe 09-25-2010 08:23 AM

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blakduk (Post 184427)
The screenshot from a few weeks ago of the crew of a Ju88 jettisoning the rear portion of the canopy made me very curious- how did a Ju88 crew bail?

Dachabwurfvorrichtung or Roof-dropping device

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39...orrichtung.jpg



Notauslösung der abwerfbaren Bodenwanne (C-Stand) or Emergency release of the bottom Gondola


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39...uslösung0.jpg

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39...auslösung.jpg


...

Hunden 09-25-2010 08:28 AM

more than a flight sim?
 
I wonder if there is the intention of this being more than just a flight sim in the future. Do you have plans for this to grow into a full battle simulation with fps (ground troops) and armor usable by player?

Baron 09-25-2010 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunden (Post 184512)
I wonder if there is the intention of this being more than just a flight sim in the future. Do you have plans for this to grow into a full battle simulation with fps (ground troops) and armor usable by player?


As far as i can remember Oleg has made subtle hints to that effect.

Dont quote me on it though.

Hunden 09-25-2010 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron (Post 184513)
As far as i can remember Oleg has made subtle hints to that effect.

Dont quote me on it though.

Just a feeling but me think it so, awesome....... sorry forgot about the dont quote part lol.

Rodolphe 09-25-2010 09:05 AM

...


Nice to see some new vehicles on those Friday's Screenies. :grin:

Cruiser Tank Mark.IV
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/G...4Standards.jpghttp://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/MKIV0.jpg


Beaverette Mk.III
http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Beaverette0.jpghttp://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39...averette00.jpg



Guy Armoured Car Mk.I
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...moured-Car.jpghttp://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/GuyACMkI.jpg



Renault UE Chenillette
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...r.00048b3a.jpg
http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/RenaultUE0.jpg



Morris-Commercial CS8 Water Tank
http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/CS8WT0.jpghttp://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/CS8WT.jpg

...

Qpassa 09-25-2010 09:41 AM

Could be an idea: You could make a mini video , in it we could watch the gunners and pilot running to bail out inside the bombardier

mark@1C 09-25-2010 10:36 AM

A quick question,
When playing the two-seat aero types, does it mean that we shall have an experience just like that we could have at the flight school, a tutor and a student?
Thanks.

Rodolphe 09-25-2010 10:52 AM

...

A 'Beute' Renault UE tugging this Bf 110 of II./ZG 2 during summer 1940.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/RenaultUE00.jpg




Victor Mölders of 1./ZG1 drove this liberated Bugati during his stay in France.


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Bugati.jpg


Any chance to seize some sport cars for our virtual Luftwaffe Experten ? :rolleyes:


...

Hecke 09-25-2010 10:54 AM

Well Oleg:

The terrain still looks crappy and it's endless far from cinematic.

Some sort of trees in the pics look very poor, others quite good.

johnnypfft 09-25-2010 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hecke (Post 184535)
Well Oleg:

The terrain still looks crappy and it's endless far from cinematic.

Some sort of trees in the pics look very poor, others quite good.

OMG....... who said SOW will be 100% cinematic?? The year is 2010 not 2030

Sutts 09-25-2010 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hecke (Post 184535)
Well Oleg:

The terrain still looks crappy and it's endless far from cinematic.

Some sort of trees in the pics look very poor, others quite good.

Unbelievable:roll:

johnnypfft 09-25-2010 11:13 AM

If the game is almost complete, can we get a video update with sound next friday? Please

Kurfürst 09-25-2010 12:16 PM

God, I wish Maddox Games would licence this engine or the models to the creators of the MMO Battleground Europe... or do something similiar by themselves :)

ElAurens 09-25-2010 12:21 PM

Kurfurst, I do think that Oleg has this in mind for later.

An all encompassing arir/ground/sea MMO from Oleg would indeed be wonderful.

philip.ed 09-25-2010 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutts (Post 184541)
Unbelievable:roll:

He has a good point though. Compared to recent games, the terrain does look quite bad. I've even seen better terrain textures for Il-2 at this altitude. I'm sure it will be fixed and/or changed, but IMO too much work is being put into ground vehicles which are so detailed, I can't imagine giving a toss about how many rivets they have when I fly past at 300MPH. It's great to see this attention to detail, but I think there are other areas that need more work ATM.

Kurfürst 09-25-2010 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElAurens (Post 184555)
Kurfurst, I do think that Oleg has this in mind for later.

An all encompassing arir/ground/sea MMO from Oleg would indeed be wonderful.

I have my fingers crossed! There is nothing like going on a hunt for A14s with a Sdkfz 232 :)

Tree_UK 09-25-2010 01:30 PM

I have to agree the terrain looks like its been badly painted by a child, who as placed some giant cabbages randomly in fields. Still its early days, and we haven't seen anything in DX10 or 11 yet.

philip.ed 09-25-2010 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree_UK (Post 184570)
I have to agree the terrain looks like its been badly painted by a child, who as placed some giant cabbages randomly in fields. Still its early days, and we haven't seen anything in DX10 or 11 yet.

Early days is a good point. Personally, I won't worry too much about the terrain upon release so long as it can be worked on in patches. :cool:

kendo65 09-25-2010 02:04 PM

Ok. I went back and re-looked at the first batch of screenies from this week just to see if I'd been drinking too much when I first saw them and that had skewed my perception.

Nope, still look pretty good to me, especially the first pic with the hill in the background.

I will say though that the shots we've seen from ground level do seem overall to look better than those from medium / low altitude, but I think those have been improving too.

Anyway, Hecke - 'crappy' is well over the top.


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:42 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2007 1C Company. All rights reserved.