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Feuerfalke 06-14-2008 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proton45 (Post 44007)
I'm not sure what type of ammo is being shot at you but a cannon shell could still have lethal velocity (and damage potential) at 450meters (=1500 feet)...

I wonder why he stated distance in feet? You mean yards, perhaps?

Effective Range of a Cal.50HMG is stated with 1800-2000m. That is up to 6000ft and 2200 yards. AFAIK the range of an MG131 is roughly the same.

C6_Krasno 06-14-2008 11:08 PM

What does "effective" means ? The bullet reaches the target, the dispersion remains under a given value, the bullet can go through a given width of steel ?

Feuerfalke 06-15-2008 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C6_Krasno (Post 44011)
What does "effective" means ? The bullet reaches the target, the dispersion remains under a given value, the bullet can go through a given width of steel ?

IIRC the Cal.50 bullet in WW2 could penetrate up to 16mm of hardened armor plate at 600m. A while ago I also read a report from Janes about firing special AP-rounds being able to penetrate up to 1 inch of steel-plates at 2000m. It should be noted, though, that these numbers dramatically decrease, if the armor is angled.

The effective range is the distance where it can still be fired aimed and has a high chance of killing a person. Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, who used a modified M2 HMG in Vietnam for sniping, engaged his enemies at 1500 to 2000m. His record was an aimed shot over 2280m.

Deliverator 06-15-2008 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke (Post 43914)
That is very easy to do in IL2: Switch to the gunner-station and disable the automatic control. If you have also disabled the automatic-switch, the gunners will remain silent until you activate them.

I know it's only a workaround and barely useable for larger bombers, but it is a very handy thing for flying a Ju87 or BF110.;)

You are right, it goes well. Thanks :grin:

41Sqn_Stormcrow 06-15-2008 05:21 PM

I was just wondering since I know that bac in ww2 it was common practice to go as close as practicable. Well, if the cal .50 can penetrate a steel plate from 2000 m ...

could you post a link where I could read this kind of information. It interests me very much. Yet I still would like to know if velocity and altitude drop due to drag and gravity is simulated or not - just by curiosity ...

JG27CaptStubing 06-15-2008 05:57 PM

This guy did a pretty good job putting together some assumptions all based upon data he has collected. As I started to go through his descriptions it seemed to be very logical and well thought out.

He references quite a few documents and books to back up his thoughts...


http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

Feuerfalke 06-15-2008 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deliverator (Post 44024)
You are right, it goes well. Thanks :grin:

It's just a workaround, but I use it a lot, to sneak in and out. Online I also set my bomb-delay to the maximum value. It gives you a little advantage for your escape if you are on a server that reports when targets are hit.

@ 41Sqn_Stormcrow

As I posted, this shot over 2km was with a special AP-Ammo that was AFAIK not available in WW2.

For in formation about the ranges and deflections of Cal.50s I can recommend the book about Carlos Hathcock (German: "Todesfalle"). There are some really stunning reports and a lot of information about tactics and weapons used by snipers in Vietnam and beyond.
Due to his success with the Cal.50, it was further developed as a sniping-ammo and therefore a lot of testing was conducted by the USMC. The tests mentioned are directly from that test. It's been quoted a lot of times. At least I found it after 10 seconds via google.

I'd also like to say that it is not a general rule to get as close to the enemy as possible. It depends a lot on what you are fighting and with what weapons you are engaging. What is true for a 109 against a P51 is not necessarily true for a FW190 with gunpods against a formation of B17s. Remember, effects from cannon-shell explosions are not reduced by range.

Here's some nice data on ammo used, accuracy over distances and penetration values:
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/i...g/50_ammo.html

Also check out these charts from WW2-testing:
http://img59.exs.cx/img59/919/ap19az.jpg
http://img59.exs.cx/img59/9960/ap23wz.jpg

Feuerfalke 06-15-2008 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG27CaptStubing (Post 44028)
This guy did a pretty good job putting together some assumptions all based upon data he has collected. As I started to go through his descriptions it seemed to be very logical and well thought out.

He references quite a few documents and books to back up his thoughts...


http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

I thought about posting a link to that, too, but it caused some heated discussion at the Zoo a while ago. I must confess I think it's quite logic, too.

41Sqn_Stormcrow 06-15-2008 06:43 PM

Thanx a lot!

robtek 06-15-2008 06:54 PM

@stormcrow

if you watch the tracer in il2 you see that the ballistic is simulated.


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