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loreangelicus 09-24-2009 03:21 AM

item rewards DO CHANGE!!!
 
1 Attachment(s)
On a game where I had already reached the elven lands, only to restart because I was doing a no-casualties run (I originally though the tutorial casualties didn't count), I got as a reward from killing zombie Noric an Intellect Ring; I killed him at level 6.

On my restarted game, because of taking advantage of getting Tactics Treatise earlier for maximum effect, I killed zombie Noric at level 10; but this time he gave me the pathetic Silver Horn!

I tried from a level 9 save, level 8 save, and level 7 save; still Silver Horn. Reloaded from a level 5 save (I didn't have a save for level 6), saw that I was too underpowered to take on Noric, levelled up and took out the turtle boss first (for +500 leadership) and took down Noric; success! Intellect Ring again!

Just thought everyone should know, since it seems that the common consensus in this forum is that all items are fixed at the start.

For those interested in knowing how to take out zombie Noric's group at level 6 with no losses when his zombie stacks are worth twice you leadership, a screenshot is attached to know the ideal unit composition. Necro Call is essential (and is a fixed reward in the Lost Chronicles quest), and level 1 Slow helps a lot too.

Also, in the same light, the Talking Stone initially transformed into something that only gave me 50 XP. I reloaded, fought one battle, and checked: +4 mana. Reloaded, fought another battle, +1 defense, so I took that gain.

Rewards could change, though I don't know if it applies to quest rewards.

Elwin 09-24-2009 07:19 AM

yep, we already discovered it on polish forum

Razorflame 09-24-2009 12:26 PM

interesting find man;-0
^^

BB Shockwave 09-24-2009 12:31 PM

Noric gives you an item when you kill him? Never noticed... I killed him around Level 6 and most likely got a Mana potion or some other stuff...

However, item rewards are indeed not fixed for some quests. When helping the King's Brother's future Wife, I got a Pendant of Intellect (or something) as a reward that gives the Hypnotize scroll if you battle the keepers. In my previous game I definetly didn't get that item...

I also wonder how randomly you can get items just by defeating a random enemy army. I killed a group of Ghosts in the Cemetery, and got the Pain Skull! (pretty usefull for my Mage).

loreangelicus 09-24-2009 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elwin (Post 104442)
yep, we already discovered it on polish forum

Hi Elwin, would you happen to know the mechanics of how the items change? For the sample I have above, would it have changed again if I killed Noric at level 11+? Maybe I could kill him off in conjunction with storming Castle Karmag at around level 20. :) Just a thought, I happen to believe the Intellect Ring is the best item around since you could get to absorb the +3 intellect after 30 kills, which allows you to sell the resulting pathetic level 1 version and use another item.

And while it seems unlikely that a started quest would have it's rewards change, could I "test start" a quest, then if I don't like the rewards I could start it at a later level for a different reward? I'm thinking of the Rare Creatures quest since it gives you 3 random scrolls, so it might be a good way to hunt for rare scrolls.

loreangelicus 09-24-2009 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB Shockwave (Post 104500)
Noric gives you an item when you kill him? Never noticed... I killed him around Level 6 and most likely got a Mana potion or some other stuff...

However, item rewards are indeed not fixed for some quests. When helping the King's Brother's future Wife, I got a Pendant of Intellect (or something) as a reward that gives the Hypnotize scroll if you battle the keepers. In my previous game I definetly didn't get that item...

I also wonder how randomly you can get items just by defeating a random enemy army. I killed a group of Ghosts in the Cemetery, and got the Pain Skull! (pretty usefull for my Mage).

Hi BB Shockwave, what I mean by item reward change is it is with the same game, not a different started game. So in my example, I got an Intellect Ring if I killed Noric at level 6, but if I had waited and killed him at level 7 - 10 I would have gotten a Silver Horn.

Chests during battle also have a chance of giving runes, scrolls and items. That is why I make a save game before every battle, and if it has a chest, I do a test run and get to the chest no matter what, even using Teleport on my horsemen. Who knows, maybe that chest holds a powerful item or scroll. :)

BB Shockwave 09-24-2009 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loreangelicus (Post 104508)
Hi BB Shockwave, what I mean by item reward change is it is with the same game, not a different started game. So in my example, I got an Intellect Ring if I killed Noric at level 6, but if I had waited and killed him at level 7 - 10 I would have gotten a Silver Horn.

Chests during battle also have a chance of giving runes, scrolls and items. That is why I make a save game before every battle, and if it has a chest, I do a test run and get to the chest no matter what, even using Teleport on my horsemen. Who knows, maybe that chest holds a powerful item or scroll. :)


Yeah, I noticed the Chests... However if you do the battle after reloading, that chest will have the same item. That is, unless you move the battle to a different spot on the adventure map and the battlefield changes.

I'm already anticipating the Dragon's "dig up chests" Rage spell in AP will be a much-used skill by me. :)

loreangelicus 09-24-2009 01:16 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I stand corrected, I was at level 9 when I got the Silver Horn (see screenshot), though I did try to level up to 10, then tried it again to see if I could get a different item. When that still resulted in a Silver Horn, that's when I started loading from lower-level saves.

I wanted to just update my original post, but I didn't know how to do the image upload update there.

Elwin 09-24-2009 01:26 PM

sorry but no one tested it deeply how it changes

loreangelicus 09-25-2009 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elwin (Post 104519)
sorry but no one tested it deeply how it changes

Thanks for the reply. If it is indeed level-based as my testing suggest it to be, it may not be worth reloading from a level 6 save when you are already level 14+ anyways.

At least for now, it seems that we could assume that for zombie Noric's item reward you could get different items depending on whether you are level 6 and below, or if you are level 7+.

And of course, the Talking Stone is easier to manipulate, just engage in an additional fight(s) to get the reward that you want.

arcangelo 08-11-2010 03:26 PM

I have done some testing on this and it does not appear to be level based, at least on the level when killing the zombie.

The reason for my testing was that I ran across this thread when trying to figure out why the zombie was not reacting to me when speaking to him. What I discovered was that if you blow up the alchemist's gear and do not talk to the alchemist before going back to the witch, it bugs the quest.

So, I was level 8 and wanting to get an INT ring for my mage, but not able to get the quest from the alchemist. I reloaded from a level 5 save, prior to doing the witch quest and have killed the zombie (reloading each time to try again at the next level) at levels 5-8 and he always gives me the copper ring, which I do not want.

So, it is perhaps based on your level when receiving the quest, but I am not starting back at level 5 again. This is my first play through, on impossible, and I do not have that much free time. :)

If anyone else has information on how you can change rewards, please post.

Best,
Arc

Vomaxx 08-14-2010 08:13 PM

I have never been able to get this quest at all. What is the proper sequence?

vmxa 08-15-2010 07:20 PM

I posted this one as I had the same trouble. As he said, if you blow the Alchemist cauldron, you need to go right to him to get the quest.

Come back later and it will not appear.

arcangelo 08-20-2010 07:22 PM

I came back to confirm that the item reward did change for me at level 10 (to the INT ring, which was very much needed!) after not having changed from levels 5 through 9.

I was close to 10 so I decided to try it even though I had already wasted a lot of time over the blasted ring...Thank goodness.

Lex 10-24-2011 08:48 PM

Topic is old, but:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elwin (Post 104519)
sorry but no one tested it deeply how it changes

I did some tests I would like to share. I tested over 100 saves from two different games (200 saves in total) and I found "something".

1) Reward from Noric is rather not based on character level

2) I've noticed reward changes everytime you change a zone out/in of area - it means that player will get different item everytime it will go out of Marshan Swamp area and come back - it could be going to Greenwort and coming back OR just going in and out of some crypt.

3) Reward does not change when you open graves to get items / armies or pick up items.

4) There is probably finite number of items you can get in every game - in my tests it was 7 or 8.

5) From testing of 100 saves (by going out of Marshan Swamp and entering back) I got:

1st game: (by running scanner Noric should drop Book of Beast Rage, but in game I could get 8 different items)
11x Pendant of Iron Will*
06x Banner of Heroism*
10x Bronze Ring*
08x Sign of Rage*
16x Flame Necklace*
18x Case
16x Telescopic Sight
15x Officer's Baton
Please note that I couldn't get the item listed by scanner.

2nd game: (by running scanner Noric should drop Flame Necklace, but in game I could get 7 different items)
14x Pendant of Iron Will*
11x Banner of Heroism*
10x Bronze Ring*
14x Sign of Rage*
16x Flame Necklace*
09x Bloody Band
14x Sign of the Diplomat

Items marked with * appeared as drop in both games.

I have more info from my tests, it is less important, but if you want to know something more then ask.

Lex 10-24-2011 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loreangelicus (Post 104417)
Also, in the same light, the Talking Stone initially transformed into something that only gave me 50 XP. I reloaded, fought one battle, and checked: +4 mana. Reloaded, fought another battle, +1 defense, so I took that gain.

It is not true that you need to fight a battle. You only need to reload the game.

trentjaspar 04-23-2012 05:39 PM

Are there any other battles like this?

I stumbled across this phenomenon myself when killing Noric. I was doing a scouting run seeing if I missed any freebies (with the plan to restore later), and decided to see what army Noric had. I would have killed him with no losses except I figured I'd be restarting so killed the last stack of decaying zombies with a low-HP unit which ended the battle. I got the Intellect Ring Class 2, which I really wanted (trying to get to 15 Int as a Paladin). So I restored and went back, killed him with no losses, and got the Officer's Baton. I tried several times to restore/wander around/kill and get the ring back, but every time I got the baton. I finally gave up and never did figure out what made the reward change. I don't believe I left the Marshawn Swamp in any of my attempts (including the original one). I did enter some crypts in several iterations.

Oh well. Maybe I'll be glad I got the baton, but for now I wish I had the ring.

Fatt_Shade 08-16-2012 09:30 PM

It`s a bit out of date but i just now figured this out for KB-tL (i`m not sure if it works same way for KB-AP/CW). When lvlup choices are different depending of location.
Expl : i need 100 more exp for 4th lvl fight 1 battle in Greenwort and choice is +2 defense / +180 leadership. I load before battle and go fight battle in Marshan swamp lvlup and get +2 defense / +210 lds , in Arlania got +1 defense / 150 lds and so on. 4 to 5th lvl range was from +6mana/+1 intellect to +11mana / +2 int . . . Every location gave me different choice.
I just start new game and saw this by accident, i`m not sure was this posted before. But little info for any1 starting new game when it`s easy to change locations (Greenwort , Arlania, Marshan Swamp, Verlon forest) and choice on lvlup can be considerable +150lds, or +210lds for 3-4lvl hero can mean something.

Elbyron 08-16-2012 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade (Post 454808)
It`s a bit out of date but i just now figured this out for KB-tL (i`m not sure if it works same way for KB-AP/CW). When lvlup choices are different depending of location.
Expl : i need 100 more exp for 4th lvl fight 1 battle in Greenwort and choice is +2 defense / +180 leadership. I load before battle and go fight battle in Marshan swamp lvlup and get +2 defense / +210 lds , in Arlania got +1 defense / 150 lds and so on. 4 to 5th lvl range was from +6mana/+1 intellect to +11mana / +2 int . . . Every location gave me different choice.
I just start new game and saw this by accident, i`m not sure was this posted before. But little info for any1 starting new game when it`s easy to change locations (Greenwort , Arlania, Marshan Swamp, Verlon forest) and choice on lvlup can be considerable +150lds, or +210lds for 3-4lvl hero can mean something.

You must be playing with some kind of mod. The base game has never offered me more than +1 of any attribute. And even for a mage on Easy difficulty, the most mana that can be offered is 8. Leadership gain is always equal to hero level times 40 (mage), or 50 (paladin), or 60 (warrior). Thus none of those leadership offerings are possible at level 4. This is all well-documented in the Russian fan manual, so you probably have some kind of mod applied that is changing the level-up offerings based on difficulty of your current area.

Fatt_Shade 08-16-2012 10:46 PM

It`s easy to check, but i try it in mod and in original game and similar thing happen. Start game on any mod and go to marshan swamp, accept quest from with to blow up alchemist cauldron but before do it save game and use stinky elixir (right click on item in inventory and use it) it always give 150+ exp points for mage up to 200 so it 100% to get you from 1st lvl p to 2nd then. See choices offered and then load and go to greenwort and use elixir, then try it in arlania/verlon forest/lyaro island.
I know about class lds gain on lvlup but i sometime get lds like 174, or 231 and that`s got nothing to do with 40/50/60 multiplier for each class, and i have same numbers in my hero.txt file like in original game settings so i dont think it`s about that. And rune gain is also same as original.

EDIT : Damn, you`re right. Try basic game with no mod changes and got same lvlup choice every time. But still have no idea what file make this differences on hero lvlup.

MattCaspermeyer 08-17-2012 12:42 AM

Only in my mod
 
This is right - only in my mod do you have variable leadership / attribute / mana / rage increases - the range is based on your class / level.

This is one of the "flavorings" I added to the game to make level up choices more interesting, since after a certain point, in the stock game it was advised to always take leadership when given the choice. Now, though, you'll have more strategic selections in your level up choices throughout the entire game and leadership is no longer always the best choice for your character.

By the way, there are at least two random functions: Game.Random and Game.CurLocRand. The first one is used for most probability stuff and is what is the same for repeating battles, etc. The second one is used when you want the randomness to be tied to your map location and it seems like I see more AP / CW LUA functions using CurLocRand as opposed to just Random. For example the Adventurer Spells use CurLocRand, that's why you can get a different unit based on where you are.

In my mod, the reason why you see different level up choices based on where you are is because you are fighting a different battle and thus changing the seed for Random in some way.

Hope that explains some of the confusion...

/C\/C\

Mateush 07-15-2013 05:59 PM

My third playthrough. Like someone said it doesn't seem to be much level-based, if any at all. Because of my old habit so I got a lot very good items from him. Items seems to be very random though some of them probably has higher dr.

I have to go through 2 or 3 areas to him in order to change item drop.


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