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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer 1C: Maddox Games.

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  #1  
Old 02-22-2012, 05:00 PM
6S.Manu 6S.Manu is offline
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Default What do you search in a combat flight sim?

Thank to our mate Carguy I'm asking myself how much the community is divided about the priorities in a combat flight sim.

@Carguy: I've never imposed my thought to anyone... you can choose to ignore me or discuss the matter as people do in every message board. At least I've not imposed it like many here who claim CloD the best sim ever done forcing the disagreeing people to run away. Usually they don't ever take time to discuss in a constructive way, since when you criticize their toy it's like molesting their children...



Anyway these are my priority lists about a combat flight sim:

High priorities
- Flight model (it's a flight sim... every plane should fly almost like the real one)
- Virtual pilot simulation (fatigue management, visibility skill, G-forces, damage model)
- Damage models
- Weapon's historycal performance and calibration.
- Communications (between pilots and with ground control... think about calling the mechanic because of an issue during the engine startup, talking directly to the command for info, having the command that alert you of a plane seen by some civil observers on the coast)
- Sound engine
- Demanding management of the plane (not only engine management, but also belts, oxigen, gunsight's bulbs ect...)
- Atmospheric simulation (sun, clouds, haze.. maybe not visually perfect, but they must be there and must be VERY important for the pilot)

Low priorities
- Object 3D models
- 3D world graphics
- Visual effects
- Airbase life
- AI

Needless things
- Clickable cockpit
- Manual ammo belt management
- Interactive flak
- Dynamic weather
- Extreme weather like rain or storm
- City life (it's a war... why should bombed families turn on the light? Here in Italy if you turned on the light you were to be strafed)... no, cows are useless...
- Women between the pilot's arms


As you see graphics are low between my priorities... and both WoP and CloD are not passable to me: the former is limited in many aspect, the latter "could be" more complete but at the end is a pile of unfinished code.
By the way one of the most beautiful civil sims I've ever bought is Condor... Visually is ugly (old) but the feeling is great!

I hope it's clear now...

What about your priorities?

Last edited by 6S.Manu; 02-22-2012 at 05:07 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-22-2012, 05:13 PM
Flanker35M Flanker35M is offline
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S!

For me the FM and DM come above all. If those are whatever not even the fanciest ey candy can save the product. I can live with less graphics if the rest is damn well done. After all you are flying a plane, not sightseeing if a pub or bordello has correct curtains in windows

It is always a trade. You can simply not have photorealistic graphics with a damn detailed FM and DM + lotsa AI. No system can run that. So cut down the eye candy to be purposeful for a FLIGHT sim and make the rest better..in short
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  #3  
Old 02-22-2012, 05:42 PM
robtek robtek is offline
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Beside the as real as possible FM, DM and CEM, believable sourroundings and as much little detail as can be inserted without endangering fluid playing, i'd like to see changing weather.

To go on a mission with 6/8 cloud cover, maybe finding the clear weather over the target, just to come back low on fuel, having to land in a rainstorm with gusty wind, after finding your base under the now closed cloud cover with the base at 1000ft.
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  #4  
Old 02-22-2012, 06:06 PM
Chivas Chivas is offline
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A combat flight simulation developer that continues to support their products after release and strives for the most realistic experience possible.
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  #5  
Old 02-22-2012, 06:42 PM
ATAG_Doc ATAG_Doc is offline
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I look for contacts that are not flying on the same side as me.
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  #6  
Old 02-22-2012, 06:48 PM
Ailantd Ailantd is offline
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Realism and inmersion.
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  #7  
Old 02-22-2012, 05:41 PM
TomcatViP TomcatViP is offline
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Hi Manu,

Good thread again

Here are mines. I edited your post as it was a close match. I hope you won't mind

~S!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6S.Manu View Post
Anyway these are my priority lists about a combat flight sim:

High priorities
- Flight model (it's a flight sim... every plane should fly almost like the real one)
Yes!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6S.Manu View Post
- Virtual pilot simulation (fatigue management, visibility skill, G-forces, damage model)
Excellent!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6S.Manu View Post
- Damage models
- Weapon's historycal performance and calibration.
- Communications (between pilots and with ground control... think about calling the mechanic because of an issue during the engine startup,
Oh great wld it be to hve an animation with the mech explaining to us what he had to fix on the plane and what we shld monitor in our flight
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6S.Manu View Post
talking directly to the command for info, having the command that alert you of a plane seen by some civil observers on the coast)
- Sound engine
- Demanding management of the plane (not only engine management, but also belts, oxigen, gunsight's bulbs ect...)
A key to unleash or tighten the seat belt wld be awesome !
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6S.Manu View Post
- Atmospheric simulation (sun, clouds, haze.. maybe not visually perfect, but they must be there and must be VERY important for the pilot)
- wheater and gust simulation : the plane shld be shacking, the wing shld rock instead of being so steady, our sight shld be blurred by the vibration at low alt and high speed
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6S.Manu View Post

Low priorities
- Object 3D models
- a beautifully legged female pilot (oh sry was it me or you adding this one ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6S.Manu View Post
- 3D world graphics
- Visual effects
- Airbase life
- AI

Needless things
- Clickable cockpit
- Manual ammo belt management
this was really the devil entry door (no links with the above)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6S.Manu View Post
- Interactive flak
taking ctrl of the AAA guns on the ground is a fun idea IMOHO (still no link with the above )
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6S.Manu View Post
- Dynamic weather
disagree (see above)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6S.Manu View Post
- Extreme weather like rain or storm
Planes were ordered to fly in very challenging weather during the war - IMOHO it's a must
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6S.Manu View Post
- City life (it's a war... why should bombed families turn on the light? Here in Italy if you turned on the light you were to be strafed)... no, cows are useless...
- Women between the pilot's arms
lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6S.Manu View Post

Last edited by TomcatViP; 02-22-2012 at 05:45 PM.
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  #8  
Old 02-23-2012, 11:55 AM
zakkandrachoff's Avatar
zakkandrachoff zakkandrachoff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6S.Manu View Post
Thank to our mate Carguy I'm asking myself how much the community is divided about the priorities in a combat flight sim.

@Carguy: I've never imposed my thought to anyone... you can choose to ignore me or discuss the matter as people do in every message board. At least I've not imposed it like many here who claim CloD the best sim ever done forcing the disagreeing people to run away. Usually they don't ever take time to discuss in a constructive way, since when you criticize their toy it's like molesting their children...



Anyway these are my priority lists about a combat flight sim:

High priorities
- Flight model (it's a flight sim... every plane should fly almost like the real one)
- Virtual pilot simulation (fatigue management, visibility skill, G-forces, damage model)
- Damage models
- Weapon's historycal performance and calibration.
- Communications (between pilots and with ground control... think about calling the mechanic because of an issue during the engine startup, talking directly to the command for info, having the command that alert you of a plane seen by some civil observers on the coast)
- Sound engine
- Demanding management of the plane (not only engine management, but also belts, oxigen, gunsight's bulbs ect...)
- Atmospheric simulation (sun, clouds, haze.. maybe not visually perfect, but they must be there and must be VERY important for the pilot)

Low priorities
- Object 3D models
- 3D world graphics
- Visual effects
- Airbase life
- AI

Needless things
- Clickable cockpit
- Manual ammo belt management
- Interactive flak
- Dynamic weather
- Extreme weather like rain or storm
- City life (it's a war... why should bombed families turn on the light? Here in Italy if you turned on the light you were to be strafed)... no, cows are useless...
- Women between the pilot's arms


As you see graphics are low between my priorities... and both WoP and CloD are not passable to me: the former is limited in many aspect, the latter "could be" more complete but at the end is a pile of unfinished code.
By the way one of the most beautiful civil sims I've ever bought is Condor... Visually is ugly (old) but the feeling is great!

I hope it's clear now...

What about your priorities?
i want too, a very nice dynamic mission generator. (i am tired to use the full mission generator),
i want that the QMG surprise me in a nice mission, with low and very dispersed aircraft, not 3 squadrons of 4 aircraft each one.
is for that i like small battles in big complex zones, like Crimea, Odessa, Finland, Africa, and another places of the east front.
i don't like so much common zones, and big raids.

example: fly a rumanian 109E/B in Odessa, with a coupe of he112 and attack biplanes , and be attacked by ppolikartovs, but the entire map need to have small groups of planes at the same time, but i dont need to know about the other operations from my airforce and either the enemy airforfce.;. that is i like.
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  #9  
Old 02-23-2012, 01:54 PM
pupo162 pupo162 is offline
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i will sue your list and edit to my likes,


Anyway these are my priority lists about a combat flight sim:

High priorities
- Flight model (it's a flight sim... every plane should fly almost like the real one) - BINGO
- Damage models - strike 2
- Sound engine - meh, this is a priority yes, but i very usually play soundless anyway.
- Demanding management of the plane (not only engine management, but also belts, oxigen, gunsight's bulbs ect...) - yes yes and yes.
- Atmospheric simulation (sun, clouds, haze.. maybe not visually perfect, but they must be there and must be VERY important for the pilot)
- AI - OK, this is probably, in my opinion, your bigest miss. we wont ever get 100 guys flying in the same server online, and even if we do, it will turn soon into a airquake. AI can keep fill the gaps and an easy way around to have historical size fights.


Low priorities
- Object 3D models - yes, i will be seeing them from high above, no need for uber detail. 1946 was about balanced
- 3D world graphics - Low priority, but still a priority
- Visual effects - Low priority, but still a priority
- Airbase life
- Weapon's historycal performance and calibration. -mixed feelings
- Communications (between pilots and with ground control... think about calling the mechanic because of an issue during the engine startup, talking directly to the command for info, having the command that alert you of a plane seen by some civil observers on the coast) -Low priority, but still a priority

Needless things
- Clickable cockpit -this is not needless. but isnt a priority too. its done already and works fine. i like it, and saves A LOT of time setting up keys.
- Manual ammo belt management - mixed feelings
- Interactive flak - THIS! THIS! THIS!, please THIS!
- Dynamic weather -Welll.... no, i guess. not a priority, but not needless
- Extreme weather like rain or storm -Welll.... no, i guess. not a priority, but not needless
- City life (it's a war... why should bombed families turn on the light? Here in Italy if you turned on the light you were to be strafed)... no, cows are useless... - meh. some parked cars, and sandbags in loondon would make it look more life like. now it looks like a zoombie city. still, its not a priority,
- Women between the pilot's arms - KILLL HER!
- Virtual pilot simulation (fatigue management, visibility skill, G-forces, damage model) - Bingo!, i mean, dont you think staying in your pc for 4 hours playing isnt fatiguing enough?, and visibility skills come with time. noobs cant spoot anything in first weeks



Good thread, hope 1c pops in and sees waht we actually want.
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  #10  
Old 02-23-2012, 02:40 PM
6S.Manu 6S.Manu is offline
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Wow! As I thought the term "combat flight sim" means different things for many of us. In the past I had another discussion about mods and how they splitted the IL2 community, claiming that this community was already splitted in many groups: the ones who search realism, the ones who only like to fly and the one who only like to fight... the presence of so different server (talking about difficulty settings) was a proof.

Immersion and realism are vague words: I still remember the post of some guys joking about how the "realism lovers" need to really die when the screen comes black.

So if think that also this to concepts should be clarified.

If the moderators allow me I'll open another thread with a rating system.

@pupo: the actual absence of fatigue permits pilots to sustain high G-forces for dozen of minutes (until they win/die)... it clearly affects realism IMO.

Last edited by 6S.Manu; 02-23-2012 at 03:40 PM.
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