
FM/DM threads Everything about FM/DM in CoD 

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#1




Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data
I moved it from another topic about FM issues in COD:
Quote:
Look at these document for Merlin III engine from 1940: IT doesnt look similar to Merlin XII which used also 100 octan fuel? Also developers really dont care too much RL performacne of BoB planes ( Spitfire, Hurricane and 109). It is another their fault in these game. I just check COD manual with peformacne data for Spitfire, Hurricane and 109 where is very wrong data for these planes ( climb rate, maximum speeds and turn rate). Here are some RL data for these planes: Spitfire Mark I from BOB period ( CS propeller, aditional armour and windshield) Here is speed with old power settings  +6 1/2 lbs and with new emergency power  + 12 lbs. Spitfire MK1 climb rate at 6 1/2 lbs: Spitfire turn rate at 6 1/2 lbs CSP: Hurricane MK1 from BOB peroid ( CS propeller, aditional armour, 100 octan fuel) Climb rate for Hurricane MK1 but without aditional armour and armoured winshield For comparison climb rate at 6 1/2 lbs Hurricane withou armour and with aditional armour And the same with speed  Hurrciane MK1 without aditional armour ( Hurricane from BOB peroid with aditional armour/ armoured windshield would be slowier) Bf 109 E3 with DB 601 Aa engine  1.45 Ata emergency power: D a t e n b l a t t Me 109. A b m e s s u n g e n: Spannweite 9,90 m Gesamtlänge 8,76 m Grösste Höhe 2,45 m Flügelfläche 16,40 m G e w i c h t e: Zelle 650 kg Triebwerk 1075 " Ständige Ausrüstung 85 " Zusätliche Ausrüstung 200 " Rüstgewicht 2010 kg Zuladung 530 kg Fluggewicht 2540 kg M o t o r l e i s t u n g: 1) Nennleistung 1100 PS in 3700 m Höhe bei 2400 U/Min. (5 min. Kurzleistung in 3700 m Höhe) Erhöhte Dauerleistung 1050 PS in 4100 m Höhe bei 2400 U/min (30 Min.) Dauerleistung 1000 PS in 4500 m Höhe Sparsame Dauerleistung 970 PS in 3700 m Höhe Bei 2250 U/Min. 2) Startleistung 1175 PS in 0 m Höhe (zulässige Dauer 1 Min.) bei 2500 U/Min. 3) Bodenleistung 1015 PS in 0 m Höhe Kurzleistung (5 Min. Dauer) bei 2400 U/Min. Erhöhte Dauerleistung 950 PS in 0 m Höhe (zulässige Dauer 30 Min.) bei 2300 U/Min. Dauerleistung 860 PS in 0 m Höhe bei 2200 U/Min. Speed: Höchtsgeschwindigeit in 0 m 500 km/h in 1000 m 510 " in 2000 m 530 " in 3000 m 540 " in 4000 m 555 " in 5000 m 570 " in 6000 m 565 km/h in 7000 m 560 km/h Climb rate: S t e i g z e i t e n. Steigzeit auf 1000 m 1,0 Minuten auf 2000 m 1,9 " auf 3000 m 3,0 " auf 4000 m 3,8 " auf 5000 m 4,9 " auf 6000 m 6,3 " Turn rate : These are, at Sea Level and at 6000 m, with and without deploying flaps to aid turning : Without use of flaps : at 0 m altitude  170 m (557 feet), at 6000 m (19 685 feet) altitude  320 m (1050 feet). With use of flaps : at 0 m altitude  125 m (410 feet), at 6000 m (19 685 feet) altitude  230 m (754 feet). Similiar figures are given by a calculation by Messerschmitt AG on Bf 109E turn times and radius in an internal Messerschmitt report. The calculation was based on a similiar set of data, but assumes the slightlly lower power output of the DB 601A1 at 990 PS. Conditions in the calculation were 2540 kg weight, 990 PS output, an altitude of 0 m and no height loss. Under these conditions, the turning characteristics of the Bf 109E were as follows : Turn time for 360 degrees: 18,92 seconds. Turn radius for above turn: 203 m Take note that the smallest turning radius and the best turning time do not occur at the same airspeed, which would Further calculations were made for a diving turn of a descent rate of 50 m/sec, which would be equivalent translate to an overall power output Turn time for 360 degrees in a 50m/sec diving turn : 11,5 seconds. Turn radius for the 50m/sec diving turn above : 190 m For comparison turn rate for Spitfire MK1, Hurricane MK1, 109 E4 SPITFIRE Mk.I Turn Performance 300mph  1,000ft 5,000ft 10,000ft 15,000ft One 360  12.2s 13.5s 14.7s  Two 360s  24.9s 28.2s 30.3s  250mph One 360  10.8s 12.8s 13.4s 14.1s Two 360s  24.4s 28.2s 29.9s 33.2s Sustained No Flaps  14.8s 16.0s 17.8s 20.8s Full Flaps  15.1s 16.4s 18.1s 21.8s Best Flap  none none none none Speed/best  125mph 125mph 125mph 120mph Hawker Hurricane Mk I Turn Performance 300mph  1,000ft 5,000ft 10,000ft 15,000ft One 360  12.1s 12.4s 13.6s  Two 360s  24.2s 25.3s 30.0s  250mph One 360  10.2s 11.7s 12.9s 15.0s Two 360s  23.6s 26.2s 28.5s 33.2s Sustained No Flaps  14.8s 16.4s 18.5s 22.1s Full Flaps  14.8s 16.6s 18.4s 22.2s Best Flap  full full full full Speed/best 105mph 105mph 100mph 100mph Bf109E4 Turn Performance 300mph  1,000ft 5,000ft 10,000ft 15,000ft One 360  12.9s 13.4s 15.4s  Two 360s  29.4s 31.2s 35.0s  250mph One 360  12.9s 13.7s 15.5s 16.7s Two 360s  31.0s 32.4s 36.5s 41.2s Sustained No Flaps  18.0s 19.3s 21.2s 24.1s Full Flaps  19.0s 19.8s 21.7s 24.8s Best Flap  none none none none Speed/best  120mph 120mph 120mph 115mph RL Data Speed for comparsion between Sptfire MK1 +12 lbs ( red)  Hurricane MK1 +12 lbs ( green)  109 E3 1.45 Ata ( black) And now for comparson data from COD: COD looks really off here. I think development team should really make better research in RL performacne of these birds and take care more about historical realism and accuracy like expect most IL2 fans. 
#2




looks like it will be the same like the old il2... they hate AXIS!

#3




I missed the thread where this was copied from.
So I have just one question: where is this data from? Sources and references?
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LEVEL BOMBING MANUAL v2.0  Dedicated Bomber Squadron 'MUSTANG'  compilation of online air victories 
#4




Here.
We. Go. again. 
#5




Did you actually check, if the ingame performance of those planes, matches the charts in the manual?
Or are you just assuming that this would be the case? 
#6




Fiat G.50 HAS NOT the overboost function  WEP (it was called "+100" and added 100 mmHg for the engine)
Engine power could be increased, for a short period of time, to 960 HP at 3.000 m. The engine should be then running at 890 mmHg pressure. In the game, manifold pressure at max throttle is 710 mmHg... A lot less than what it could achieve. As it is now, the plane feels so underpowered. It certainly wasn't. Power to weight ratio was 0,35 HPKG... way better than Hurricane I for example (0,24 HPKG). I certainly doesn't feel like that in the game. Whenever you start to make a shallow climb with a G.50, it stalls. It wasn't fast, but... it could outclimb an Hurricane 1 so... And it can just reach 350 km/h at sea level. IRL it could master about 40 km/h more. Last edited by Rickusty; 04012011 at 11:31 AM. 
#7




Quote:
Quote:
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/ and here about LW planes: http://www.kurfurst.org/ Plus many data and scans, manuals, books etc. which i got from many years reaserching Quote:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=19754 So i clearly see that there is a problem here and it would be good if developers would make it in right way in future patches. I see that they just have a problem with accurate data for these birds so i i think they need help here  if they want of course. 
#8




Quote:
Im not wonder that G50 had also wrong power settings in COD. Such problems have near all COD planes. You could post here reliable data for G50 also. Maby developers will be interesting in these. 
#9




Well, if the numbers in the manual match the actual performance of the plane in game, then it's way off (according to the data shown here)...
I wonder what source they used for the FM. 
#10




This a very critical post for the sim. No matter the complexity of the engine model or physics, if the data is not reliable, people won't take the sim in consideration.
Thank you very much Kwiatek, this time let's make the data chars clear, public and historical. 
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