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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer 1C: Maddox Games.

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  #41  
Old 06-05-2011, 07:20 PM
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bongodriver bongodriver is offline
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I'm surprised to see people on here discussing 'Battle of Britain' as though it was part of a campaign to put Britain under Nazi control. I've not seen any evidence that Hitler had any real desire or plan to land Wehrmacht units in England. In fact Hitler's only concern about the British in 1940 after June was to keep them at bay just long enough to conclude the campaign in Russia which he expected to finish in the autumn of 1941.
I thought it was called 'operation sea lion'
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  #42  
Old 06-05-2011, 07:21 PM
41Sqn_Stormcrow
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I have to disagree. While I do believe that conquest of the two Western countries (France and UK) was not something on the agenda in the first place as Hitler's interest lay entirely in the East, I think the attempt to occupy Britain was serious. Occupying it was the only way to put at least the heart nation of the Empire out of action and free enough ressources for the East. Otherwise the arial campaign would have made no sense as serious attrition took place. And you don't go on an all out campaign if it is just for teasing when you actually want it only for the real thing.
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  #43  
Old 06-05-2011, 07:44 PM
winny winny is offline
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Originally Posted by baronWastelan View Post
I'm surprised to see people on here discussing 'Battle of Britain' as though it was part of a campaign to put Britain under Nazi control. I've not seen any evidence that Hitler had any real desire or plan to land Wehrmacht units in England. In fact Hitler's only concern about the British in 1940 after June was to keep them at bay just long enough to conclude the campaign in Russia which he expected to finish in the autumn of 1941.
How do you conclude something you haven't started yet?

I think Hitler thought they might as well 'have a go' at Britain, I agree that He didn't show any real interest in the UK. He had no involvement in the planning of Sealion, which was very unusual because he was involved in the planning of every other major offensive.

His main target was always the Russians.

However it's easy to say in hindsight, are you saying that if the RAF had been 'defeated in 4 days' that Hitler would not have continued the offensive?

It's pretty obvious that he never really wanted to go to war with Britain (at least not in 1939).Paradoxically, he knew the longer Britain held out the more the possibility of the US getting involved increased. And he was well ware of what that would mean.

He just bit off more than he could chew. It's a recurring theme from 1941 onwards.
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  #44  
Old 06-05-2011, 09:40 PM
MB_Avro_UK MB_Avro_UK is offline
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At the risk of derailing my own thread....

The OKW produced Invasion Plan Manuals for England. Few exist today, but here are scans of such a manual I owned. It comprised about 490 pages.

It detailed every possible landing area for a German invasion on the south coast (SudKuste) of England with troop deployments.

It is dated 15th August 1940 and this example was distributed to an Artillery Regiment.

Of all the many locations detailed in this manual, I have chosen Dover as an example.

This manual alone doesn't prove Hitler's intentions but it is interesting.





























Best Regards,
MB_Avro
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  #45  
Old 06-06-2011, 12:07 AM
winny winny is offline
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It's not always understood that a mini-Battle of Britain occured in WW1. Mainly between 1916 and 1918.

Britain was being bombed by Zeppelins and later by German bombers in WW1.

The defending British aircraft of the RFC and RNAS had huge problems as regards interceptions and the destruction of these crafts.

It was realised that both a Detection System and heavily armed high performance fighters was the answer.

Hence, radar and eight gunned fast fighters desigined for the RAF in the 1930's.

The only flaw in the calculations was as follows. It was anticipated that the German Luftwaffe bombers would have to fly unescorted from Germany. The fall of France was not envisaged.

Enter the Defiant. Built to intercept unescorted bombers.

Any thoughts?


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.
The RAF owes it's existance to the WWI air attacks by Germany.
An Air defence committee was set up because of them, the main conclusion of the committee was that Britain needed an independant (of the Army) air force. They also saw the need for a flexible defence network of interceptors, AA and detection methods.
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  #46  
Old 06-06-2011, 12:38 AM
whoarmongar whoarmongar is offline
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I too have a historical document , a transcript of a meeting somewhere in France in 1940.
It was recorded and translated by a brave French agent in the days before babel fish or any other online translator programs thus the poor quality of the translation.


Adolf Hitler. Verdammit, the stupid english island monkeys do not know that they are beaten.

Wilhelm Keitel. Indeed mein fuhrer, our boys played a blinder, slipped around the defensive wall and gave them a good kick up the arse ! They never knew what hit em. The french went running home to there mommas and the English running for the boats crying foul.

Adolf Hitler. Ah Wilhelm what am I to do ? I never wanted a war with England. Why do they not see sense ? Shh dont tell anyone but I rather like the English, the british sense of humour, football, a world empire there is a lot to admire, why they even drink beer unlike those effete southerners with there poncy wine,why even the royal family is German.

Wilhelm keitel. Well mein Fuhrer perhaps they will now see sense, make peace and then we can sort out our easern problem afterall Churchill is a well known bolshovic hater.

Adolf Hitler. WINSTON CHURCHILL that is my problem, That fat alcoholic syphalitic jew lover is our problem. well lets see if he is shouting defiance when my panzers overrun his undefended country. Fetch me von Rundstedt.

Ah my dear Gerd how are you and how are my fine wehrmacht boys, not to tired I hope ?

Von Rundstedt. Nein mein Fuhrer. After a few days for rest and recovery the boys will be in fine fettle and ready to do mein Fuhrers bidding, and if I may say on a personal note mein Fuhrer im rather looking forward to going to the south of France and grabbing all the best bits before that jackal Mussolini joins the war and grabs them for himself.

Adolf Hitler. Actually Im not thinking south of France im thinking...

V.R. (interupting) But mein Fuhrer, we agreed it will take three months to move our armies east and by then it will be autumn, we cannot possibly sort our eastern problem before spring 1941 !

A.H. Nein, nein,nein. You will invade England and teach these tommies that I am not a Fuhrer to be messed with. The glorious wehrmacht will write another annal in history that will be remembered for a thousand years. We will be masters of not only europe, but the world. It is our destiny. Once England is bent to our will the eastern problem will be seen in a whole new light trust me.

V.R. But mein Fuhrer, there is an obstacle to our plans for world domination,the channel.

A.H. Bah its hardly a sea, more a mere ditch, hardly an obstacle at all

V.R. still mein fuhrer it is technically a sea therefore the navy must ensure that I can land my troops safely, otherwise I cannot guarantee the success of the operation, however IF my boys get ashore you can be assured we will give those tommies a good licking.

A.H Very well, Fetch me Erich Raeder

Erich, you have seen what my wonderfull wehmacht boys have achieved I have spent an absolute fortune building your nice navy and im sure your itching to show me what it can do.

E.R Indeed mein Fuhrer, I am certain that within 18 months we can bring the Britishers to there knees begging for peace and to be left alone. Why even as we speak Doenitzs U boat boys are sinking British ships at will and a nation as well as an army marches on its stomach. without supplies the Britishers are finished. They alone resist us, they have no allies and there colonies are to far away to be of any help whatsoever.

A.H. Eighteen months ! EIGHTEEN MONTHS ! We dont have eighteen f**king months, You will sail into the channel, deposit my army on the shores of England and this war will be over in eighteen days ! That is an order from your Fuhrer do you understand !

E.R. As you order mein Fuhrer, however I must point out that the british have a powerful navy and we can expect considerable losses that would hamper or even defeat our invasion unless...

A.H. Unless ?

E.R. Well mein Fuhrer, um er, well unless we can achieve air superiority over the channel that is. If we have air superiority then im sure we can land our armies, in fact im certain of it.

A.H. I have never heard such defeatist claptrap, I ought have you all shot. Fetch me Hermann Goring and get out of my sight im going for a piss.

At this point Hitler exited the room, however a whispered conversation between ER and GvonR was overheard by our agent.

E.R. What madness is this ? I cant possibly land your armies in england without suffering immense losses. but If I had said that it would have been cutains for me, XXXX what the hell are we to do ?

G.R. I know my dear Erich, it is madness but if I had refused to agree I would have had a "heart attack" and that blue eyed boy Rommel would probably get my job, that ambitious little XXXX would do anything for a promotion, I will have to watch him, however Im going to send him to some strategic backwater as soon as its possible.
As for this England Invasion we have only one hope.

E.R. And what is that ?

G.R. Dont worry Erich, Now we are relying on the luftwaffe and fat Hermann is bound to make a ballsup of it. We can sleep soundly in our beds, and so I suspect can the English, this invasion will never happen.

Last edited by KG26_Alpha; 06-28-2011 at 10:06 AM.
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  #47  
Old 06-06-2011, 10:17 AM
ATAG_Dutch ATAG_Dutch is offline
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Superb

Not the full story for sure, but certainly a credible half of it.
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  #48  
Old 06-06-2011, 10:33 AM
ChicoMick ChicoMick is offline
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"Verdammit" Brilliant Lmao !

Yeah, probably a lot of truth in that, very good
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  #49  
Old 06-06-2011, 11:26 AM
Kurfürst Kurfürst is offline
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"Verdammit" Brilliant Lmao !

Yeah, probably a lot of truth in that, very good
+1. Pretty much sums up the whole story, and what was going in the heads on the German side of the Channel..
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  #50  
Old 06-06-2011, 09:04 PM
baronWastelan baronWastelan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winny View Post
How do you conclude something you haven't started yet?

I think Hitler thought they might as well 'have a go' at Britain, I agree that He didn't show any real interest in the UK. He had no involvement in the planning of Sealion, which was very unusual because he was involved in the planning of every other major offensive.

His main target was always the Russians.

However it's easy to say in hindsight, are you saying that if the RAF had been 'defeated in 4 days' that Hitler would not have continued the offensive?

It's pretty obvious that he never really wanted to go to war with Britain (at least not in 1939).Paradoxically, he knew the longer Britain held out the more the possibility of the US getting involved increased. And he was well ware of what that would mean.

He just bit off more than he could chew. It's a recurring theme from 1941 onwards.
Hitler was very afraid of the USA grabbing huge chunks of Britain's empire if the British gov't were to cease functioning. He did not want to take over the British empire for the same reasons he didn't take over all of France and her colonies and Navy. The more one studies it, the more it seems that Hitler's brain was hard-wired not to invade England. It is clear that already as early as July 1940, Hitler convinced himself the invasion of Russia was the key to neutralizing the British, this was the deranged game of chess that he was playing in his mind. It's in Halder's diary, after the OKW meeting of 31 July: "With Russia smashed, Britain's last hope would be shattered."
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