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IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator.

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  #1  
Old 01-07-2021, 03:47 PM
Jumoschwanz Jumoschwanz is offline
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Default Ace AI is terrible.

The behavior of the "Ace" AI is nowhere near to fighting like a smart WWII pilot. Decades ago chess programs were beating all but the very best of players, but the Ace AI in IL2 makes rookie moves all the time.

This game should have the top setting so that almost nobody could beat it, just as the hard settings in a chess program keep almost anyone from beating them.

I went into an early Zero against four early "Ace" p-40s and shot them all down Quickly !, because instead of using the strengths of the P40 compared to the Zero they flew slowly below it or tried turning and climbing as evasion tactics.

Even though it's engine was smoking badly, one P-40 easily pulled away from my zero in a shallow dive and I was thinking if it were me I would be flying towards home or friendly flak, but after it got a kilometer ahead it suddenly turned sharply to either engage or try some clumsy evasive maneuver and that was the end of that.

The first three I shot down I simply out-climbed and they stupidly pursued falling below so I could just boom and zoom them, three down with three passes.

It would not be hard to program AI so that when they are attacking faster or slower aircraft or aircraft with better or worse rates of climb, or aircraft with poor or better rates of roll, to select their attacks and evasions from one of two to four types of behavior just as any informed WWII pilot actually did once the performance of enemy aircraft was known.

But for 20 years this has not happened.
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  #2  
Old 01-08-2021, 06:18 PM
gaunt1 gaunt1 is offline
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Yes, but dont forget that the early P-40s are pretty crappy compared to the Zero.
Try something else. Like any Bf-109 vs 4x La-5FN. Now thats tough. Or same setup but with any Fw-190A. Thats even tougher. Or substitute the La-5FN with La-7, thats almost impossible.

Anyway, I get what you are saying, and I agree, the AI sometimes cant use the aircraft's strenghts against the player. But I do not think it will be corrected, Il-2 1946 is at the end of its life sadly. (despite that it is still better than the recent IL-2 battle of... series in many ways, so it would be worth supporting it for a few more years)
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  #3  
Old 01-08-2021, 08:16 PM
Jumoschwanz Jumoschwanz is offline
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I have beat every imaginable one vs. four-ace scenario in this sim on HARD settings countless times since I first flew it when it came out 20 years ago, vs. four good human pilots on hard settings is just fun for me.

It makes no difference which AI aircraft you go up against because the "ace" AI is going to make rookie mistakes, if not one type then another.

And unless someone is part of the actual team that works on IL2 then what they have to say about future patches and what is possible in them carries zero weight with me.
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  #4  
Old 01-12-2021, 06:50 PM
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dimlee dimlee is offline
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Well, if one can win in any 1 vs 4 aces scenario, it's time to move on to new challenges.
What about Pe-3 vs 4 Bf 109F4? Or Bf 110 vs 4 late Spits?
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Q: Mr. Rall, what was the best tactic against the P-47?
A: Against the P-47? Shoot him down!
(Gunther Rall's lecture. June 2003, Finland)
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  #5  
Old 01-12-2021, 11:32 PM
Oh Chute! Oh Chute! is offline
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Smile AI vs. player

Reading the comments and it makes out that ace AI ought to be invincible.
I don’t know in what war. Ace pilots have always been killed while making rookie mistakes, or heaven forbid, ace mistakes.
The hardest thing in air warfare is to maintain a large fleet of fighter aces. And when they go, rookies go even quicker.
That to one side. I have noticed that if the player is aggressive in his attack on superior numbers, and uses boom and zoom as his tactic, that the AI break and never really recover the advantage. The boom and zoom tactic developed to defeat being out manoeuvred by ace pilots or any other kind.
Then you’ve got those enemy who have wounded you and who follow you all the way back to base, spraying you with machine gun fire as they hunt your six from too high and too fast. Who had time for that!
Of course there are exceptions to the aggressive AI. For example, Russian campaign Kuban and the introduction of the Romanian IAR-80 under German Air Force. They are very aggressive and that plane out classed by a Bf109E becomes the equivalent of a La-FN.
There are other examples in different theaters where the FM is similarly prejudiced. Like the Hurricane in the Pacific. I always get the grunt and fart unmodded version, for some reason in game, the R.A.E. restrictor mod to solve the flooding carb problem isn’t credited as a first priority field mod for some reason. And you never get close to the Hurricane Mk1 top speed of 315mph unless you’re in a dive.
Games are fun.

Last edited by Oh Chute!; 01-12-2021 at 11:53 PM.
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  #6  
Old 01-21-2021, 01:58 PM
Jumoschwanz Jumoschwanz is offline
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In IL2 at the end of the plane selections there are choices to fly against the aircraft of great aces from WWII both allied and axis, but of course they are no more challenge to shoot down than any other plane in IL2.

All having to fly a bomber against fighters to have a challenge means is that the AI opponents are indeed really bad. It would just be nice to have a one vs. one AI contest that was a challenge, and to say it is not possible to program a computer to give that could only be ignorance.

The program is only as good as the coder though, and just because someone can write code and programming for IL2 does not mean they know what they are doing in the cockpit of a virtual fighter. Just like someone who is not a brain-surgeon could never write a program to tell a machine to do that either.

The AI fighter opponents are good, but after 20 years of patches and all the advances in technology in that time good is the new bad. I am nowhere near as good a virtual pilot as I was ten or twelve years ago because of lack of practice and my eyes get worse every year, but I can still beat all the "ace"
AI easy-as-pie.
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  #7  
Old 01-23-2021, 10:48 PM
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Igo kyu Igo kyu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumoschwanz View Post
In IL2 at the end of the plane selections there are choices to fly against the aircraft of great aces from WWII both allied and axis, but of course they are no more challenge to shoot down than any other plane in IL2.

All having to fly a bomber against fighters to have a challenge means is that the AI opponents are indeed really bad. It would just be nice to have a one vs. one AI contest that was a challenge, and to say it is not possible to program a computer to give that could only be ignorance.

The program is only as good as the coder though, and just because someone can write code and programming for IL2 does not mean they know what they are doing in the cockpit of a virtual fighter. Just like someone who is not a brain-surgeon could never write a program to tell a machine to do that either.

The AI fighter opponents are good, but after 20 years of patches and all the advances in technology in that time good is the new bad. I am nowhere near as good a virtual pilot as I was ten or twelve years ago because of lack of practice and my eyes get worse every year, but I can still beat all the "ace"
AI easy-as-pie.
Programming is not easy, it's about as easy as Real Life flying. It changes all the time too, so someone who was up to date in 2000 is 20 years out of date now, even if they've actually kept using what they knew then. The original iL2 is a 20 year old program, there just aren't many new programmers coming along who know about the languages it was written in.

Last edited by Igo kyu; 01-25-2021 at 10:44 PM.
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  #8  
Old 01-25-2021, 09:00 PM
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dimlee dimlee is offline
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I suggest to take this game for what it is and do not demand more. All (or most) "bugs and features" were spotted, studied, and discussed ad nausea during the past two decades.
Let's manage our expectations. We can use all strengths of the game and mitigate its weaknesses using our creativity and experience.
When a simple X vs Y match is boring and easy, there is always a possibility to make a more complex scenario. If early Zero vs AI P-40 is predictable, what about the same Zero but vs A-20s escorted by the same P-40s. The number of variants is endless even in this old game.
And why not add a bit more human intelligence by taking the game online. There are a dozen or so servers running 24/7. Some of them offer interesting scenarios where one can choose to fight AI or human pilots or both. Humans are less predictable, aren't they?
Interception of bombers is one of my favorite tasks in multiplay. When the human enemy is there, I like it even more since I have to watch my six and plan my attacks carefully. As soon as I feel it is too easy and start to relax there is always that Mustang or Tempest pilot who is happy to saw the wing off my Bf 110.
Occasionally it's my turn to provide a wake-up call. Recently I crawled slow and low in my Hs 129 while the sky above was ruled by a good pilot in La-5FN who blew Bf 109s off the sky with ease and hunted our bombers. He got too relaxed at the end and tried to pick me up at my final approach. Nein nein nein. Small Henschel is slow but agile and Mk 103 is deadly.
The more human factor, the more fun.
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Q: Mr. Rall, what was the best tactic against the P-47?
A: Against the P-47? Shoot him down!
(Gunther Rall's lecture. June 2003, Finland)
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  #9  
Old 01-27-2021, 01:46 PM
JacksonsGhost JacksonsGhost is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumoschwanz View Post
... the Ace AI in IL2 makes rookie moves all the time. ...
I agree the randomness of Ace AI has probably been taken a bit too far. They do make too many rookie moves, and too often expend all their ammo shooting high over a target aircraft which is flying straight and level, even when sitting on their six. But I wouldn't want them to be super-human either.

However, when play testing my "FW 190 Aces over Italy" mission I once saw the "player" aircraft, flown on autopilot at Ace skill, destroy 10 mixed-skill enemy fighters before returning to base. It may not be a challenge for you Jumo, but I think many human pilots would struggle to match that on hard settings! I admit though, that some of those credited kills would have been pre-damaged by other Fw 190s and/or flak.
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  #10  
Old 02-21-2021, 05:26 PM
taly001 taly001 is offline
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The weirdest matchup I found is player Me163 vs AI Zeros. The stock game Me163 turns great at low speed ~200kph, and the AI Zero try to turn with it but don't have the power Me163 can turn on unrealistically on/off quickly?
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