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IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey Famous title comes to consoles.

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  #11  
Old 05-19-2010, 09:30 PM
MACADEMIC MACADEMIC is offline
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Excellent picture, thanks!
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  #12  
Old 05-20-2010, 12:59 AM
kozzm0 kozzm0 is offline
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I'll be back, but probably not in time to sign up for this

I'm still using fw 3.15
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  #13  
Old 05-20-2010, 11:32 AM
vdomini vdomini is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MACADEMIC View Post


[cut]

Settings are:

- P-51 B or P-51 D5
- Cockpit View Only (no switching to Virtual at any time)
- Full sensitivity(!) on Elevator and Ailerons
- HUD disabled
- Limited Fuel/Ammo

[cut]
Hello Mac! nice to "see" you here too
Looks like you really want to "push" the simulator experience very far! But then you should add at the list also "not looking at the map anytime". lol okay okay i am joking, now.. let's get serious

I wish you the best on that but i have very strong perplexity about the "full sensitivity" settings and "no hud" settings.

I'll try to explaint that using my little english... mmh.. basicly, i think that more the simulation is close to the real machine, more you would need real interfaces too. I.E.: Force feedback devices, big monitors... real cockpits and so on. Pretending to handle a real plane using the ps3/hd-tv interfaces would add a complexity layer that is not really fly-related.

A real plane, when flying at full speed, maybe diving, also give feedback to the pilot, maybe like the flystick is much harder to pull, the wings starts to shake, and so on.... things that you can't have on that game.

So, talking about the flystick ( for example ): learning how to handle a p51 in full aileron sensitivity using that tiny feed-less ps3 joypad would lead me to develop skills that are not really fly-related. I would need a force feedback stick to give it a sense, for sure!

Talking about the hud: flying with no hud, so forcing me to move the camera up and down to stare that tiny almost useless altimeter or whatever ( even in full hd is hard to read it properly during flight ) would not be very realistic, because it will take me more time reading that digital gauge that a real one... i try to explain what i think... Mostly all real fly simulator have a real airplane cockpit surronuded by a lot of monitors, with all gauge/buttons/displays actually working, and a skilled pilot knows where to "point his eyes" inside the cockpit, most of the time he don't need to lower his entire head to achieve that!
So having the speed/altitude and angle of attack displayed on screen is fair enough, a good compromise, like the sum between what you would be able to read from a real cockpit and what the game interface offer to you.


I hope i'm not writing to much eheeh but in the end i think that flying in the club with your settings would not add realism at the simulator. but, maybe, you want only to make things harder

Sometimes i fly cockpit view too, but only because i like to see that graphics.

Take care! Clear sky for you!

V.
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  #14  
Old 05-20-2010, 11:51 AM
MACADEMIC MACADEMIC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kozzm0 View Post
I'll be back, but probably not in time to sign up for this

I'm still using fw 3.15
Hey mate, was wondering where you were. I guess we'll be here for a while - when can we expect you back?

Cheers,

MACADEMIC
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  #15  
Old 05-20-2010, 12:38 PM
MACADEMIC MACADEMIC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdomini View Post
Hello Mac! nice to "see" you here too
Looks like you really want to "push" the simulator experience very far! But then you should add at the list also "not looking at the map anytime". lol okay okay i am joking, now.. let's get serious

I wish you the best on that but i have very strong perplexity about the "full sensitivity" settings and "no hud" settings.

I'll try to explaint that using my little english... mmh.. basicly, i think that more the simulation is close to the real machine, more you would need real interfaces too. I.E.: Force feedback devices, big monitors... real cockpits and so on. Pretending to handle a real plane using the ps3/hd-tv interfaces would add a complexity layer that is not really fly-related.

A real plane, when flying at full speed, maybe diving, also give feedback to the pilot, maybe like the flystick is much harder to pull, the wings starts to shake, and so on.... things that you can't have on that game.

So, talking about the flystick ( for example ): learning how to handle a p51 in full aileron sensitivity using that tiny feed-less ps3 joypad would lead me to develop skills that are not really fly-related. I would need a force feedback stick to give it a sense, for sure!

Talking about the hud: flying with no hud, so forcing me to move the camera up and down to stare that tiny almost useless altimeter or whatever ( even in full hd is hard to read it properly during flight ) would not be very realistic, because it will take me more time reading that digital gauge that a real one... i try to explain what i think... Mostly all real fly simulator have a real airplane cockpit surronuded by a lot of monitors, with all gauge/buttons/displays actually working, and a skilled pilot knows where to "point his eyes" inside the cockpit, most of the time he don't need to lower his entire head to achieve that!
So having the speed/altitude and angle of attack displayed on screen is fair enough, a good compromise, like the sum between what you would be able to read from a real cockpit and what the game interface offer to you.


I hope i'm not writing to much eheeh but in the end i think that flying in the club with your settings would not add realism at the simulator. but, maybe, you want only to make things harder

Sometimes i fly cockpit view too, but only because i like to see that graphics.

Take care! Clear sky for you!

V.
Hi Vdomini,

Nice to see you here as well!

About your post, of course you got a few valid points here, but let me explain. Even though a real airplane would give you much more feedback (like you said, higher control forces with higher speed, real G-forces, stall buffet as you're approaching a stall, etc.), you would still always (except for a modern type fly-by-wire machine, where the computer prevents it) have the real possibility of stalling the airplane if you exceed your maximum angle of attack, with all the consequences. Since the game allows you to turn down the sensitivity of the elevators to a point where you can in any situation pull as hard on the stick as possible and still not stall, this feature removes an important realistic behaviour of the airplane, especially on the P-51 with its superlaminar flow wingfoil. Essentially, this brings you in the realm of an arcade game, nothing wrong with that, but lacking realism. It makes the aircraft just so much easier to fly if you don't have to think about any limit.

Now, about the HUD, I agree it's hard to read the tiny altimeter and airspeed indicators on the real panel, but then I think it's not all that much needed in most situations. Disabling the HUD adds to the feeling of being in a real cockpit, and in addition you don't see your enemies as dark black dots from miles away. You have to come closer to see them.

About the map. Of course that would add some realism, but would make it too hard in my opinion to find each other, unless the action is limited to a certain part of the map, and certain altitude range, e.g. at the Sicily coast map only in the vicinity of Catania airport, 0-6000feet above ground. For now, we'll leave the map on.

To sum it up, experience with these settings shows that it is possible to fly the P-51 very finely, and within it's limits, be it with a pad or with a flight stick. It's hard, but it's fun, rewarding, and gives you, in my opinion, the best real airplane feeling possible with this game.

Perhaps you'll try sometimes?

Cheers my friend.

MACADEMIC

Last edited by MACADEMIC; 05-20-2010 at 12:52 PM.
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  #16  
Old 05-20-2010, 12:47 PM
MACADEMIC MACADEMIC is offline
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A little P-51 sugar for my friends:


Last edited by MACADEMIC; 05-20-2010 at 01:15 PM.
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  #17  
Old 05-20-2010, 01:17 PM
vdomini vdomini is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MACADEMIC View Post
Hi Vdomini,

Nice to see you here as well!

[cut] ... Since the game allows you to turn down the sensitivity of the elevators to a point where you can in any situation pull as hard on the stick as possible and still not stall, this feature removes an important realistic behaviour of the airplane, especially on the P-51 with its superlaminar flow wingfoil. Essentially, this brings you in the realm of an arcade game, nothing wrong with that, but lacking realism. It makes the aircraft just so much easier to fly if you don't have to think about any limit.

Now, about the HUD, I agree it's hard to read the tiny altimeter and airspeed indicators on the real panel, but then I think it's not all that much needed in most situations. Disabling the HUD adds to the feeling of being in a real cockpit, and in addition you don't see your enemies as dark black dots from miles away. You have to come closer to see them.

[cut]

To sum it up, experience with these settings show that it is possible to fly the P-51 very finely, and within it's limits, be it with a pad or with a flight stick. It's hard, but it's fun, rewarding, and gives you, in my opinion, the best real airplane feeling possible with this game.

Perhaps you'll try sometimes?

Cheers my friend.

MACADEMIC
Good luck with that!

I think it's always good and fun to look for new features in games, trying to develop maybe some new way of flying and new strategies. It keeps the game alive and is more challenging. I wish you could set up those limits while hosting a game!

Still i am not agree about pretending to stall a plane during a dogfight just by pulling the controlls abruptly without any "feelings". You talk about realism but... this game even does not support overspeed or structural damage... your wings could bend and break if you try to pull stick too hard in certain situation, varying from plane to plane. Give me a force feedback stick, and i'll fly full sensitive straight away! Also, during dives, some plane may overspeed and elevator being stuck... ( see what happened on p-38 lighting during dives... high-speed compressibility stall is not even implemented in the game simulator engine... ) So even what we consider "simulator" is pretty "arcade" to me I don't pretend to much

I need to know my ALT during a lot of situation, i need that because the resolution of the tv and the camera FOV can't be compared to what my eyes could really see in a cockpit... and i need to know if i have enough meter under my belly for a dive or a loop... In real i am able to determine my position and my heigh if i fly ( VFR ) over a known territory, it's matter of experience and training... in game, the alt does the work for me.


Sure i will try but in a 10 min only 1 vs 1 i can't stand p51 longer lol

see you soon!!
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  #18  
Old 05-20-2010, 01:32 PM
winny winny is offline
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As soon as I've unlocked the 51's I'll have a go at this.. Thank you Sony.

And just to chip in.. I think that it's more realistic only in the sense of what's going on around you. Everyones got to be gentle and there's less of the wobbly-chase stuff. It looks from the cockpit more like the gun camera footage because evryones flying smoother. From a realistic flying experience point of view I agree, you'd have to pull damn hard on a real stick to achieve some of the stuff you can do with the flick of your thumb, but it is the console version.

Playing like this concentrates the mind and freshens the game up a bit.
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  #19  
Old 05-20-2010, 01:41 PM
MACADEMIC MACADEMIC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winny View Post
Playing like this concentrates the mind and freshens the game up a bit.
LOL Winny, you'll be our texter for future ads. I'll put you on. Remind me your PSN - Winny1973, right?
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2010, 01:51 PM
MACADEMIC MACADEMIC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdomini View Post
So even what we consider "simulator" is pretty "arcade" to me I don't pretend to much

...

Sure i will try but in a 10 min only 1 vs 1 i can't stand p51 longer lol see you soon!!
Right, of course there's more to it than we can do here on our little consoles in our comfy living rooms. Anyway, to me the best experience achievable with what we have...

Look forward to flying with you soon, in any plane, setup or state of mind you like (lol...refering to your signature )!

Cheers, MACADEMIC

Last edited by MACADEMIC; 05-20-2010 at 02:07 PM.
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