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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer 1C: Maddox Games.

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  #91  
Old 10-27-2011, 10:40 AM
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SlipBall SlipBall is offline
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Originally Posted by ElAurens View Post
You joust with a 109 E4 at low level over your field.

You are flying a Hurricane...

He has the far better aeroplane...

You do a nice little barrel roll and drop on his six and paste him and he crashes...

You salute him in chat...

And he says...

"Gay game" and quits.

Oh so satisfying.


Nice piloting there El
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  #92  
Old 10-27-2011, 11:11 AM
IvanK IvanK is offline
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Originally Posted by JG52Krupi View Post
Yes the movement might take the same time but when climbing and diving it messes up the auto prop...

I don't know a single person online that uses the auto prop... It sucks until they fix it.

With Full throttle selected the only thing that is going to cause a prop pitch change is the change in TAS. This same TAS change is going to affect you (and the RPM/Prop) at the same rate whether you are in MANUAL or AUTO. In both cases blade angle needs to be changed ... either by you in MANUAL or by the aeroplane in AUTO. In both cases it can only be done at the same Blade angle change rate. IMO it copes exceptionally well with the TAS changes even in rapid descents.

So I don't see how it messes up the prop. Be specific exactly how do you think it messes up the prop ?

Its no good just saying it "sucks until they fix it up" If you think there is something wrong that needs fixing then be specific Test/Prove and document the issue. So far you have not done that. The level speed tests proved beyond doubt that AUTO was as good as Manual. I believe exactly the same for climbs etc.

I use AUTO On line in combat .... and at any time I have max throttle selected. All my Squadmates do the same. If I need/want a differrent RPM to what AUTO will give me when less than full throttle like in a 1.25ATA climb with 2300RPM then I select Manual. As soon as Full throttle is selected I go back into AUTO. Same in combat.

So lots of people are using AUTO quite successfully to reduce workload and still get as good performance as you can get in manual. Its a tool to be used as and when required. Key to using it properly is understanding how it works and then applying that knowledge to the task.

Last edited by IvanK; 10-27-2011 at 11:26 AM.
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  #93  
Old 10-27-2011, 12:04 PM
Insuber Insuber is offline
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Originally Posted by IvanK View Post
With Full throttle selected the only thing that is going to cause a prop pitch change is the change in TAS. This same TAS change is going to affect you (and the RPM/Prop) at the same rate whether you are in MANUAL or AUTO. In both cases blade angle needs to be changed ... either by you in MANUAL or by the aeroplane in AUTO. In both cases it can only be done at the same Blade angle change rate. IMO it copes exceptionally well with the TAS changes even in rapid descents.

So I don't see how it messes up the prop. Be specific exactly how do you think it messes up the prop ?

Its no good just saying it "sucks until they fix it up" If you think there is something wrong that needs fixing then be specific Test/Prove and document the issue. So far you have not done that. The level speed tests proved beyond doubt that AUTO was as good as Manual. I believe exactly the same for climbs etc.

I use AUTO On line in combat .... and at any time I have max throttle selected. All my Squadmates do the same. If I need/want a differrent RPM to what AUTO will give me when less than full throttle like in a 1.25ATA climb with 2300RPM then I select Manual. As soon as Full throttle is selected I go back into AUTO. Same in combat.

So lots of people are using AUTO quite successfully to reduce workload and still get as good performance as you can get in manual. Its a tool to be used as and when required. Key to using it properly is understanding how it works and then applying that knowledge to the task.
I agree with Ivank, with E-4 I use AUTO most of the time, but it is most useful in rapid descents and subsequent climbs, when it coarsens the pitch quickly down to 8:30 and increases back to 11:30 during the zoom up. The AUTO is now very effective to keep your rpm constant, e.g. at 2300 at full throttle.
The only issues I have regard the weird behavior before doing the auto - manual - auto sequence described above. After that it keeps pace finely.

Cheers,
6S.Insuber
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  #94  
Old 10-27-2011, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JG52Krupi View Post
I don't know a single person online that uses the auto prop... It sucks until they fix it.
That's certainly not true, Sir. The auto prop pitch is modelled OK and if used correctly, it's very effective. Correctly means just what IvanK wrote. I use it online and never had a problem with my performance being inferior to the on manual. The key is understanding how it works and use it accordingly. I don't think what you say is fair or true at all.
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  #95  
Old 10-27-2011, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cheesehawk View Post
I rarely cruise at full 1.35ATA, prefer to keep the boost down to 1.16 or lower. How should the AutoPP respond to that in RL vs what it does in game (which is drop the PP down to 8:30 gradually)? I find it extremely unrealistic to dart around with the pedal to the metal all the time a la 1946. In manual mode, I tweak the rpm to around 9:30-10:10 to maintain a decent cruising speed, but the auto simply assumes I want the prop pitch backed off all the way, regardless of my planes attitude (dive or climb). Is that the way it worked historically? I know this isn't as sophisticated as the later Kommo systems.
Same here, in RL and also in game, your RPM will drop proportionally if your keep your MFP at say 1.16ata. If you encounter your prop pitch coarsening all the way down to 8:30, you probably have the glitch mentioned in this thread:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=27201

make sure your pp lever is in neutral position when you spawn (that's an issue online) and also make sure you take off at fine pitch. The PP drop is easy to overcome and that way, you get auto PP just as it worked in RL including it's behaviour under 1500RPM.
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  #96  
Old 10-27-2011, 05:42 PM
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CaptainDoggles CaptainDoggles is offline
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Originally Posted by cheesehawk View Post
I rarely cruise at full 1.35ATA, prefer to keep the boost down to 1.16 or lower. How should the AutoPP respond to that in RL vs what it does in game (which is drop the PP down to 8:30 gradually)? I find it extremely unrealistic to dart around with the pedal to the metal all the time a la 1946. In manual mode, I tweak the rpm to around 9:30-10:10 to maintain a decent cruising speed, but the auto simply assumes I want the prop pitch backed off all the way, regardless of my planes attitude (dive or climb). Is that the way it worked historically? I know this isn't as sophisticated as the later Kommo systems.
You must be experiencing that glitch that I posted a thread about, because on automatic mode I routinely cruise around at 1.1 ATA and though the system decreases my RPMs to about 1800 or so, it never goes all the way to 8:30 unless I'm in a monstrous dive.

The only time I use manual is when trying to do sustained climbs at low speed. Even then, not always. With WEP/overboost and at a shallow angle you can still outclimb the RAF guys. Maybe not the Hurri if you're way up high.
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  #97  
Old 10-27-2011, 08:08 PM
Continu0 Continu0 is offline
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Originally Posted by Flanker35M View Post
S!

The Bf110C-7 was mine Continu0. Annoying was that my reargunner did NOTHING, just sat there with gun in transit position. And before I could take control was too late and took a swim in the Channel Nevertheless, a kill is a kill Grats on the first ones and let there be a lot more!
Well, it wasn´t meant personally I hope I didn´t piss you off too much as it seemd that you tried to fly over the channel(and that takes a while).

Not the way you want, but you made my day! Hope to see you another time in the air
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  #98  
Old 10-27-2011, 09:58 PM
IvanK IvanK is offline
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Originally Posted by cheesehawk View Post
I rarely cruise at full 1.35ATA, prefer to keep the boost down to 1.16 or lower. How should the AutoPP respond to that in RL vs what it does in game (which is drop the PP down to 8:30 gradually)? I find it extremely unrealistic to dart around with the pedal to the metal all the time a la 1946. In manual mode, I tweak the rpm to around 9:30-10:10 to maintain a decent cruising speed, but the auto simply assumes I want the prop pitch backed off all the way, regardless of my planes attitude (dive or climb). Is that the way it worked historically? I know this isn't as sophisticated as the later Kommo systems.
As I said in my post if you want some different ATA/RPM combo than Auto gives you then drop in to MANUAL and go for it. I dont know exact values for the DB601 but these are the values the DB605 uses ... this comes from a known DB605 experten (Schwarzeman)

2100/1.05 900PS Economic cruise
2300/1.15 1075PS Max continuous
2600/1.3 1310PS 30Min Climb and combat
2800/1.42 1475PS 3Min Emergency

Obviously differrent values to the DB601 but it will give you an idea of the sort of relationships between ATA and RPM in AUTO. Remember AUTO RPM is determined by throttle lever position NOT ATA. Obviously below FTH then ATA is also determined directly by throttle lever position so in effect they are the same.

The numbers I have seen in CLOD DB601 (below FTH) for the AUTO ATA/RPM relationship are:
1700/1.00
1800/1.1
1.2/1900
1.25/1950
1.3/2050
1.35/2300
1.42/2350

We know the min governed RPM on the DB605 is 2000RPM. This effectively the Min RPM pitch stop. I suspect the DB601 in real life is the same (yet to confirm). If this is the case then it does suggest the CLOD ATA/RPM relationships for 1.0 to 1.2 are a bit low. If some one has documented DB601 values it would help getting this tweeked.

The bug on spawn in the E1-E3 and on the E4 when you select MANUAL of the prop winding back is a known bug and hopefully will be addressed. The fix is a quick blip to stop the windback. Re set 12:00 and then you are good to go. I do this this every engine start. I take off in MANUAL (12:00) I select AUTO once I get airborne. Using this technique I have never seen the prop slowly winding back to 8:30 and getting stuck.

Last edited by IvanK; 10-27-2011 at 10:01 PM.
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  #99  
Old 10-28-2011, 12:52 AM
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Nice one IvanK!

Is it known if the DB 601 'Aa' or 'A' engine is modelled in the E-4? Unfortunately, I don't know what the min governed RPM for 601s was, might as well be lower than 2000RPM. It is great to see all these small issues being addressed and fixed (mind you we started with a E-3 with lever not returning to the central position and now we have got a working Luftschrauben-Verstellautomatik )

In order to fine-tune the FMs, it would be great to know which engines and which propellers are being modelled for each subvariant. Easy enough with the propellers - 9-11081E for E-4 and 9-11081A for E-1 and E-3, but the engines in E-4s did quite a difference regarding max ATA / RPM, from which appropriate RPM drop could be calculated as the pilot moves the throttle back gradually.
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  #100  
Old 10-28-2011, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by cheesehawk View Post
Ok, still getting my head around it, so if you disable the autoPP, pull the throttle back, fiddle with the PP to get the ratio you want, then re-enable the PP, it will give you a sort of relationship from the throttle to the actual PP based upon the combination at the time the PP is set? So setting a lower throttle position (say 50%) and fining the PP to still give you 2200rpm, would give you an AutoPP that tries to keep a fine PP as you increase the throttle, until you reach a safety point when it would automatically coarsen the pitch?
If you re-enable auto, it behaves like it always does.
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