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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer 1C: Maddox Games.

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  #21  
Old 09-18-2010, 07:35 AM
janpitor janpitor is offline
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But the real pilots had peripheral vision...I fly with il2 fov changer and it really seems much more natural for me while flying.
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  #22  
Old 09-18-2010, 08:59 AM
The Kraken The Kraken is offline
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Originally Posted by zapatista View Post
you'r asking your question in the wrong location, having it mixed up in the bottom of an "irrelevant BoB question thread" means it is unlikely to get noticed, however...

there is a technical reason why most games in recent years have a max 90 degree FoV when looking at a single display, it has to do with the inherent limitations in how the game is programmed and the physics of the game engine itself. this has been discussed a number of times in several flightsim forums over the years, and that is about what it amounts to.

one very informed poster at the zoo is an astrophysicist and he gave a simplified explanation at the time of why this was the case. there are also good article on this online

for a gaming pc it also only makes sense if you have something like a 30' monitor or larger. the 27' i am currently using only represents a 55' FoV iirc (depending on how close you sit to the display), and setting it any larger forces an artificially wide FoV on a to-small display, hence shrinking all the onscreen objects (making them seem much farther away then they really are). this might be briefly useful for a snap view setting in a dogfight to maintain SA, but since real pilots didnt have that option you are "gaming the game" and one could argue it isnt "simulating the ww2 pilot experience".

in short, you can get a wider then 90 FoV, but you need multiple monitors. if you are using a 22 atm then using 3 of them will give you about 130 degrees of view iirc
Not really There's no technical reason that limits the FOV (except that you can't go beyond 180° but by then you're looking at seriously distorted scenery), and the monitor size never comes into play for the code. It's only a question of personal preference whether you like a large FOV on a small screen; obviously a 3 monitor setup is more useful for >90° but that shouldn't keep people from using it on a single screen if they want to.

Myself, I've never used the 90° view of Il2 much so I didn't feel too restricted by the "lack of widescreen support", but again, to each his own. As Blackdog has said, SoW will probably feature higher field of view settings now that widescreens are common, and I expect we'll see 120° or even more as an option.

I also don't think it gives an unrealistic advantage - not everyone has a TrackIR yet and together with the limited resolution, we're still seriously limited when it comes to what we can see compared to a real pilot.
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  #23  
Old 09-18-2010, 03:23 PM
Blackdog_kt Blackdog_kt is offline
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I think it's about technical issues and scaling first and foremost. It's not that we get an unrealistic advantage, in fact a lot of people who fly sims and transition to real flying say that a lot of things are actually easier to do in the real aircraft, thanks to peripheral vision and sense of motion that we lack in sims.

I was curious about how much difference it makes, so i asked an old school buddy about it and he said the same. He's an airline pilot that finished his training a couple of years ago, but he also used civilian flight sims to practice IFR procedures at home before taking his checkrides and he still says that the main advantage of flight sims is the refly button, as for the rest it's easier to judge how the aircraft flies in real flight.

So, back on the topic of monitors, i think what people mean by FOV restrictions is not that it's impossible to code, but that there's a physics limit on how much FOV you can get for a given monitor size and resolution without it looking like a fish-eye lens photo to the human eye. I'm not surprised the explanation was given by an astrophysicist on the Ubi forums either. I'm almost at the point of dropping out of uni in favor of more technical oriented education in computers, but i've been in a physics facculty for a few years and my chosen field was astronomy. There is in fact a correlation between distance of objects on a projection surface (like the globe of the night sky or a PC monitor), real distance of said objects in units of length and the distance between observer and projection surface.

In simple terms, what it means is that we can't get the real distances between two parts of the cockpit on a PC monitor without zooming in so much that it destroys our situational awareness and yet, we can't zoom out far enough to keep perfect SA without distorting the picture either. It's sort of a balancing act.

On the other hand, increased realism needs more money and not everyone can afford TrackIR or multiple monitors. Which means that after a certain point in flight sim development, balancing for users with different peripherals has to take precedence in order to make sure there's nobody flying at a disadvantage.

In that sense i don't mind wider FOV settings, as long as there are people that will use them and the coding time doesn't get spent for nothing. As i always like to say, extra options are always good
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  #24  
Old 09-18-2010, 07:06 PM
LoBiSoMeM LoBiSoMeM is offline
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Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt View Post
In that sense i don't mind wider FOV settings, as long as there are people that will use them and the coding time doesn't get spent for nothing. As i always like to say, extra options are always good
Simple and perfect. I use FOV CHANGER in IL2 because if I use the "90º" default for widescreen fov I lost some up/down screen size in comparsion with a SMALLER 4:3 monitor, and all the "astrophysical" and "advantage" talking are meaningless.

A simple and necessary request for widescreen users: we need improved FOV settings than the vanilla IL2 have in SoW. And we need that in 4.10 too, not just in SoW BoB, by the way: I don't undestand why simple widescreen settings (without editing confi.ini) and large FOV options isn't implemented yet in a regular patch. Widescreen monitor are the standard now, and a FOV larger than 90º is a must in combat flight sim.

I use a maximum FOV in IL2 of 112º, and the distortion using a head tracking device is minimum in terms of "spoil" the immersion, and the distance/size relation of objects issue occurs in ANY FOV, by the way: we are representing a 3D world in a 2D display...

Last edited by LoBiSoMeM; 09-18-2010 at 09:38 PM.
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  #25  
Old 09-18-2010, 07:58 PM
=XIII=Shea =XIII=Shea is offline
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why is your ip address need for il2fovchanger?i never installed it is it good?
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  #26  
Old 09-18-2010, 10:00 PM
LoBiSoMeM LoBiSoMeM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =XIII=Shea View Post
why is your ip address need for il2fovchanger?i never installed it is it good?
It uses the DeviceLink approach, and is good, but when it lost connection with IL2 you will have a lot of headache during dogfights...

We need a SIMPLE option of larger maximum FOV in common IL2 settings, and in SoW BoB, of course.

I like distorted objects and fish eye vision in my tiny 22' 16:10 monitor
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  #27  
Old 09-18-2010, 10:02 PM
Fafnir_6 Fafnir_6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM View Post
Simple and perfect. I use FOV CHANGER in IL2 because if I use the "90º" default for widescreen fov I lost some up/down screen size in comparsion with a SMALLER 4:3 monitor, and all the "astrophysical" and "advantage" talking are meaningless.

A simple and necessary request for widescreen users: we need improved FOV settings than the vanilla IL2 have in SoW. And we need that in 4.10 too, not just in SoW BoB, by the way: I don't undestand why simple widescreen settings (without editing confi.ini) and large FOV options isn't implemented yet in a regular patch. Widescreen monitor are the standard now, and a FOV larger than 90º is a must in combat flight sim.

I use a maximum FOV in IL2 of 112º, and the distortion using a head tracking device is minimum in terms of "spoil" the immersion, and the distance/size relation of objects issue occurs in ANY FOV, by the way: we are representing a 3D world in a 2D display...
It likely won't be in 4.10 since that patch is already in beta testing (unless DT plans some surprise for us ). I suggest heading over to their request thread and asking (nicely) for FOV options to be added as part of 4.11 or some later patch.

Cheers and good luck,

Fafnir_6
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  #28  
Old 09-19-2010, 09:55 AM
LoBiSoMeM LoBiSoMeM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafnir_6 View Post
It likely won't be in 4.10 since that patch is already in beta testing (unless DT plans some surprise for us ). I suggest heading over to their request thread and asking (nicely) for FOV options to be added as part of 4.11 or some later patch.

Cheers and good luck,

Fafnir_6
Really, I don't have much hope to see this feature in IL2 1946, because is something so easy to do, and not implemented yet. Maybe other factors are involved, I don't know. I'm not making a "request" to DT, just pointing that not implement wider FOV settings and simple widescreen support in IL2 in 2010, with constant patch updating by almost ten years is really frustrating. We need larger FOV in 4.10, but we probably will not have it, for reasons I don't know.

I don't have hope for IL2, but maybe the same mistake isn't made in SoW: we need maximized SA in a combat FS without need to buy 3 monitors and a massive VGA, and we can have it with FOV larger than 90º.

Last edited by LoBiSoMeM; 09-19-2010 at 05:09 PM.
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  #29  
Old 09-19-2010, 03:42 PM
artjunky artjunky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hood View Post
Um until the release date is posted...
All it takes is a little patience...
So how long should we have "patience?"

1 year? 2 years? 5? After all, they, Oleg started it.
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  #30  
Old 09-19-2010, 05:44 PM
The Kraken The Kraken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artjunky View Post
So how long should we have "patience?"
Obviously until it's done. Not sure what the big deal is. Or did you invest in the development and are waiting for cash returns?
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