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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer 1C: Maddox Games.

View Poll Results: Steam poll
Yes I have and like using Steam 256 54.47%
Yes I have and dont like using Steam 67 14.26%
No I do not have Steam but will for CoD 52 11.06%
No I do not have Steam and will not for CoD 95 20.21%
Voters: 470. You may not vote on this poll

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  #271  
Old 03-16-2011, 01:14 PM
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Moggy Moggy is offline
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I'm going to stick tin foil on my head, disconnect from the internet as Valve is trying to take over the global economy via my pc and steam...probably. Go live in a cave somewhere, put my fingers in my ears, shut my eyes really tightly and whine some more about conspiracies (the Cornwall conspiracy is my favourite) which don't really exist but in my mind they do.
IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD PEOPLE, CAN'T YOU SEE IT?

Either that or grow a beard and buy an Apple Mac as you can't run anything remotely bad on 1 of those beauties.

Oh and btw, I've never received any emails from Valve\Steam with any offers except to tell me when I've bought something. They must not like me or something.
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  #272  
Old 03-16-2011, 04:35 PM
MadBlaster MadBlaster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggy View Post
I'm going to stick tin foil on my head, disconnect from the internet as Valve is trying to take over the global economy via my pc and steam...probably. Go live in a cave somewhere, put my fingers in my ears, shut my eyes really tightly and whine some more about conspiracies (the Cornwall conspiracy is my favourite) which don't really exist but in my mind they do.
IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD PEOPLE, CAN'T YOU SEE IT?

Either that or grow a beard and buy an Apple Mac as you can't run anything remotely bad on 1 of those beauties.

Oh and btw, I've never received any emails from Valve\Steam with any offers except to tell me when I've bought something. They must not like me or something.
Actually, I'm sure they like you a lot since you are buying games through them. I wonder why that it is??? What's next??? Spend $800 on a stupid warthog??? Sucker!!!
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  #273  
Old 03-16-2011, 04:56 PM
lwlooz lwlooz is offline
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Hello,

I don't know where the logical disconnect here is.
Especially considering Blackdog_kt makes such excellent posts explaining the situation.

Why are all the Steam fans / Valve fundamentalists / Valve employees so annoyed at people wanting to have a Steam-free version?

Would this stop you from using Steam? Not it would not.

Would you not like for Maddox to get additional sales from people that do not want Steam for whatever reason?

What personal disadvantage would you have if while you have a Steamworks-Version of CoD , someone else has a Steamworks-free version of it?

I simply can not understand why consumers would be against having more choice. It does not hurt you at all. It also does not hurt Maddox , for they would get additional sales.

As for the technical aspects. As pointed out , from the news we have Steamworks is not at all needed for the game. All it brings are unecessary social features as the DRM is covered by SolidShield.
Also Bohemia Interactive can for some reason ship Arma2 with Steam and without it. Do you think Maddox are not technically able to do so?

Can't we stop going in circles with people pointing that out only to have Steam-fans reply with "Old grandpas, steam saves PC gaming yo! Luddite nutjobs,I buy all my games on steam".
I have no problem with people using steam or steamworks , but that just doesn't make sense and people pointed out several times why making Steam optional has nothing to do with any of that.

This is not about being against STEAM , but for making STEAM optional

Last edited by lwlooz; 03-16-2011 at 05:03 PM.
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  #274  
Old 03-16-2011, 05:16 PM
Blackdog_kt Blackdog_kt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadBlaster View Post
Steam is lame spyware imo. I understand having to go through Steam to validate my DVD purchase. If that means I have to have an account with them to get the validation done, so be it. But beyond that initial validation, I do mind. I would much rather download the patches myself than put spyware on my machine. Having it do whatever it does in the background, or getting spammed with Valve e-mails everyday to buy more games...why would I want that???

Also, I am worried about the online gameplay experience under Steam. As it is now, I only like flying WoP server. They make good historical type missions, the server is moderated for following the rules and the players don't suck. And if I don't want to go through Hyperlobby for some reason, I can always just put in the IP address in the game directly and it connects. I guess we won't be able to do that anymore??? I have a bad feeling that playing online on Steam server will become a 128 player furball.

Anyway, I still waiting to find out technical stuff like Freetrack capability, how many cores it will run on so I know what chip to buy...etc. So, my CoD purchase is on hold for now until this stuff gets cleared up.
Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but being overly aggressive usually detracts from our arguments. I too would like a non-steam version, but i don't think steam is lame spyware.

It's a delivery platform that has certain benefits for certain gaming genres and people with certain gaming habits, in return for the drawbacks of specific infringements on certain consumer rights and their EULA might even be illegal in certain countries, but i wouldn't go as far as calling it downright spyware.

What i'm trying to say here is, let's try to be calm and make a clear case of our point so that people who like it can keep using it and the rest of us can get an option to opt out of it in the near future
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  #275  
Old 03-16-2011, 05:23 PM
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Mick Mick is offline
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lwlooz and Blackdog you said it all, and what's more, calmly ...

I am OK to BUY the game

I am OK to activate it through SolidShields

I am NOT OK to install Steam on my rig, simply because i don't NEED it to fly offline ...

Steam has NOTHING to do on my puter ...

But I don't want anybody to be deprived of Steam if they like/need it ...
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  #276  
Old 03-16-2011, 06:02 PM
Les Les is offline
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They should release the game in such a form that it only requires SolidShield activation for online or off-line use.

But the default built-in multi-player browser should still be linked to Steam, so that you require a Steam account to use those default built-in multi-player features.

That way, anyone can play off-line with or without installing Steam, and play online with or without installing Steam, though not using Steam would require connecting to a server via direct ip or by using a third-party browser.

Anyone see a problem with that?

SolidShield for DRM online activation, Steam registration for optional use of the default built-in multi-player browser.

Patches and extra content released through Steam and through the traditional channels.

I can't see any technical issues with that, and in terms of reaching your greatest potential audience and market, it's a better solution than what's been proposed so far. In my case, I'd buy a Steam version and a stand-alone version, as that's what I originally intended to do before all this bs blew up.

If you agree with this proposed solution give me some feedback in this thread, as it might be worth making a one-sided poll just to put some more solid numbers up on the board and perhaps make UBI/1C aware of the situation that's developed around this issue.
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  #277  
Old 03-16-2011, 06:08 PM
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Mick Mick is offline
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That would be just great since Steam would be OPTIONAL ...
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  #278  
Old 03-16-2011, 06:32 PM
Fritz X Fritz X is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
That would be just great since Steam would be OPTIONAL ...
That's true, of course. Maybe they didn't want to implement another online matchmaking system than Steam to safe time / resources. Afterall, nobody knows except Oleg and the rest of the team... But there definitely seems to be a trend when it comes to using Steamworks (forcing retail buyers to register the game on Steam), look at THQ. They just recently signed a contract with Valve, making all of their coming games being Steamwork titles.

What I don't really like is the thought of this game using Steam and the Solid Shield DRM. I'm pretty sure they have their reasons to do so, but afterall Steam performs pretty well as a DRM itself. Yes, of course games can be copied illegally on there too, but I doubt that Solid Shield is gonna be fully working, too. And how badly the gaming experience can turn out if two different systems (Steam and GFWL in this case) are used at once players of "Dawn of War II" and its' first expansion "Chaos Rising" might still remember...
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  #279  
Old 03-16-2011, 06:35 PM
albx albx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les View Post
They should release the game in such a form that it only requires SolidShield activation for online or off-line use.

But the default built-in multi-player browser should still be linked to Steam, so that you require a Steam account to use those default built-in multi-player features.

That way, anyone can play off-line with or without installing Steam, and play online with or without installing Steam, though not using Steam would require connecting to a server via direct ip or by using a third-party browser.

Anyone see a problem with that?

SolidShield for DRM online activation, Steam registration for optional use of the default built-in multi-player browser.

Patches and extra content released through Steam and through the traditional channels.

I can't see any technical issues with that, and in terms of reaching your greatest potential audience and market, it's a better solution than what's been proposed so far. In my case, I'd buy a Steam version and a stand-alone version, as that's what I originally intended to do before all this bs blew up.

If you agree with this proposed solution give me some feedback in this thread, as it might be worth making a one-sided poll just to put some more solid numbers up on the board and perhaps make UBI/1C aware of the situation that's developed around this issue.
the bad is that we can't change things. If they decided that should work in a way we can do all the polls that we want but it seems that nobody care about us, and a prove are the 2 threads about freetrack, not a developer came in just to write a single word, and also on the question Tree-uk made on the other thread about the poppings buildings...
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  #280  
Old 03-16-2011, 06:44 PM
MadBlaster MadBlaster is offline
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I see no reason to call it something else (i.e. "distribution platform"). That is a marketing strategy by Steam to make it more acceptable to the gaming population they are trying to manipulate. Steam admits to collecting personal information, sending e-mails...etc. in their privacy policy that I link to below. That's spyware in my book. Opt in or out doesn't matter except to the gullible. They collect the information and use it to their monetary benefit. The basis of their business model. So let's all be good Steam boys and buy all our games through Steam. Let's tell our friends about Steam and convince them to buy games through Steam so they can tell their friends about Steam so Steam can make a lot of money for doing something you really don't need at all. And make sure to tell your friends that it is really dark ages to click on an executable to install a patch. "So 20th Century"! Wouldn't you rather have Steam take control of your computer and do that for you??? Lets all be Steam bots!!! We can all talk on the Steam forum so Steam social engineering team can track our responses and behaviour more effectively so Steam can sell even more games! And if there is something buggy with CoD, we won't give much support in the forum because we hope you will get tired of playing CoD soon and buy another game from Steam instead. The wonderful world of Steam.

http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.html
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