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IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator.

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  #11  
Old 03-29-2011, 07:30 AM
EJGr.Ost_Caspar EJGr.Ost_Caspar is offline
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Isn't 'USN markings on RAF Corsairs' wrong at all? I don't get it.


EDIT: ah, reading in that other thread, I understand now: you want in fact a F4U-1 and so you were going for a compromise, using the Corsair MK.I. And you are complaining about the historical inaccuracy of your compromise.
Well, a decent F4U-1 default skin for USN could indeed help to make your compromise looking less like a compromise.
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Last edited by EJGr.Ost_Caspar; 03-29-2011 at 07:41 AM.
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  #12  
Old 03-30-2011, 12:25 AM
-)-MAILMAN- -)-MAILMAN- is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar View Post
Isn't 'USN markings on RAF Corsairs' wrong at all? I don't get it.


EDIT: ah, reading in that other thread, I understand now: you want in fact a F4U-1 and so you were going for a compromise, using the Corsair MK.I. And you are complaining about the historical inaccuracy of your compromise.
Well, a decent F4U-1 default skin for USN could indeed help to make your compromise looking less like a compromise.
I have plenty of USN and USMC skins for the F4U-1/Corsair Mk I. I am actually complaining about the historical accuracy of the USN/USMC markings not the actual skin. The problem is that when you choose to "turn markings on" in the quick mission builder while on the arming screen; the picture changes and shows the correct USN/USMC markings, but then when you click on fly and the mission loads the incorrect insignia appears on the airplane when looking from the cockpit depending on the time-frame of the mission. This also occurs in the FMB. The '42 USN/USMC markings in the game never existed for the F4U-1 nor did the USN/USMC markings for '43 in the game for the F4U-1. The '44 markings in the game are correct for early 1943 only for the F4U-1 Corsair not 1944. By 1944 the F4U-1 was wearing the same late war makings, "stars and bars", as the rest of the US Corsairs.
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  #13  
Old 03-30-2011, 06:29 AM
csThor csThor is offline
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The problem is that the stars & bars emblem is not possible in realistic dimensions with the marking system. That would require a rectangle with greather width than height ... and we have a square. This is also the reason dedicated US skins are available for certain types - the later insignia is on them in accurate dimensions.
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  #14  
Old 03-30-2011, 11:19 PM
-)-MAILMAN- -)-MAILMAN- is offline
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Well I don't pretend to know how the national insignia is applied to a particular skin when you turn markings on. In other words I don't know the mechanics of making it happen.

I do know that in 4.09m and earlier versions the blue circle and white star appeared when you turned "markings on" and was historically correct. This was more correct than what we have in the latest version and maybe we should go back to this.

With 4.10.1 three different national markings appear depending what the date of the mission. The '42 & '43 markings are not historically correct and never appeared on the airplane.

The fact that replies and explanations have been written is appreciated and I hope a solution to this problem get found and implemented.
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Last edited by -)-MAILMAN-; 03-30-2011 at 11:31 PM.
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  #15  
Old 03-31-2011, 12:39 AM
IceFire IceFire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -)-MAILMAN- View Post
Well I don't pretend to know how the national insignia is applied to a particular skin when you turn markings on. In other words I don't know the mechanics of making it happen.

I do know that in 4.09m and earlier versions the blue circle and white star appeared when you turned "markings on" and was historically correct. This was more correct than what we have in the latest version and maybe we should go back to this.

With 4.10.1 three different national markings appear depending what the date of the mission. The '42 & '43 markings are not historically correct and never appeared on the airplane.

The fact that replies and explanations have been written is appreciated and I hope a solution to this problem get found and implemented.
You mean you liked the bright blue emblem with the white star that extended outside of the roundel? Yeah that was accurate
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  #16  
Old 03-31-2011, 04:30 AM
-)-MAILMAN- -)-MAILMAN- is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceFire View Post
You mean you liked the bright blue emblem with the white star that extended outside of the roundel? Yeah that was accurate
Of course it wan't accurate, but if you didn't zoom in it looked closer than the '42 and '43 insignia that shows when you fly the Corsair Mk I in this version of the game.

Maybe the same roundel and star that is default in '44 could be made to show for all dates for the Corsair Mk I when selecting USN/USMC.
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  #17  
Old 03-31-2011, 06:40 AM
csThor csThor is offline
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Mailman ... The marking system is generic which means it can't be tailored to each and every planetype. It's not perfect in a lot of situations, but it's what we have to work with. Sorry.
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  #18  
Old 03-31-2011, 11:00 AM
-)-MAILMAN- -)-MAILMAN- is offline
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I understand. It was just a response to the immediate previous post about the quality of old versus new markings.

Having said that what changed between 4.09 and 4.10 where we had one national insignia for this plane during all time periods to where we have three different national insignia that show up depending on the date?

thanks
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  #19  
Old 03-31-2011, 05:12 PM
EJGr.Ost_Caspar EJGr.Ost_Caspar is offline
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And BTW: we have no F4U-1 in game.
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  #20  
Old 04-01-2011, 01:55 AM
-)-MAILMAN- -)-MAILMAN- is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar View Post
And BTW: we have no F4U-1 in game.
Well how badly do you really want to split hairs with this statement?

Let me educate you since you brought it up.

We have the Corsair Mk I in the game. The Corsair Mk I is the F4U-1 that was sold to the Royal Navy. They are identical in every detail except for the camouflage and national insignia painted on the wings and fuselage. Another difference is that the US and RN used different numbering systems for the plane serial numbers.

Now to split some more hairs. Vought never referred to the Corsair Mk I by this designation instead Vought referred to it as the Corsair I. The Corsair I was built by Vought (F4U-1), Brewster (F3A-1) and Goodyear (FG-1) for the Royal Navy concurrently with those built for the USMC/USN. Again whether you call it the Corsair I or the Corsair Mk I it is still in fact the F4U-1.

To take this deeper, Chance Vought never had a designation of F4U-1A. They only reference that at a certain production number the canopy changed and the R-2800-8W was installed and plumbing was added for a single external fuel tank, but they still called it the F4U-1. The Royal Navy version was further modified by shortening the wings to fit on RN carrier hangar decks and was designated the Corsair II and was built by Vought, Brewster and Goodyear. So while we are splitting hairs, what most people refer to as the F4U-1A is also the F4U-1 so technically we do have it in the game.

Chance Vought only references the F4U-1, F4U-1C, F4U-1D, F4U-2 (night figher version of F4U-1), Corsair I, and shortened wing variants Corsair II, Corsair III (F3A-1D) and Corsair IV (FG-1D) as well as the F4U-4 variants, F4U-5 variants, F4U-6, F4U-7, AU-7. FG-2 variants were strictly Goodyear developments not Chance Vought.

So roll your eyes over that.

Earlier in the thread it was acknowledged by everyone that we know there is no plane in the game with the designation F4U-1. It was further discussed in the thread there never will be a plane in the game with the designation F4U-1 citing the current legal status that prevents it. So we have to use the Corsair Mk I which is listed as a GB plane and has the proper national roundels of a RN plane. The game though gives the player the choice to select any county when flying it. So it follows that we can choose any USMC/USN skin and choose to select USMC or USN as the country for the Corsair Mk I (F4U-1) and that the correct national insignia should be applied to our skin choice. In the version 4.09m and earlier there was one set of US national insignia (as poor a graphic quality as it was) that would be applied to to this plane regardless of time frame. In 4.10.1 three sets are available and are applied automatically and each one is applied for a specific time frame. It was also established that the two earliest national insignia were never historically applied to the US F4U-1 aka. Corsair Mk I in the game. So the question has been can this be fixed and how can it be done. Which is where we were at just before your absurd comment? You up to speed now?

I saw what I perceived as a problem and how it differed from the previous versions. People much smarter than I have explained how this occurred and what some possible fixes could be. I leave it in their hands to fix the issue which is all I can ask. If it happens it happens if it doesn't it doesn't I am powerless to do anything more so I will just lay it to rest.

Thanks to those who took the time to explain to me how the markings work with default skins and how they were applied based on dates and not the maps themselves. Thanks for explaining about the star and bars being to big and rectangular to fit on the required "square". Thanks for bringing up the suggestion of getting a default skin for the USMC/USN with the correct roundels and stars. I just hope that something can be done to make sure only the historically correct markings are placed on the Corsair Mk I/F4U-1 when the country selected is USMC or USN.

With that I am oversubscribed to this thread.
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Last edited by -)-MAILMAN-; 04-01-2011 at 02:01 AM.
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