1C Home   |   Register   |   Today Posts   |   Members   |   UserCP   |   Calendar   |   Search   |   FAQ

Go Back   Official 1C Company forum > 1C Publishing > IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover

IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer 1C: Maddox Games.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 01-27-2012, 01:51 PM
JG52Krupi's Avatar
JG52Krupi JG52Krupi is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,124
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II View Post
it just doesn't add up. Look, I am no expert in the creation of 3d models or FMs, but from what I've learned after all these years, I would structure the development process in this way:

phase 1: 1 team (1 or 2 3d artists and a skinner) for 3d model production (2 if flyable)
phase 2: 1 team (2 coders) for implementation into model

Phase 1:
1) you choose the plane to implement. 1 week
2) you gather material on it according to the agreed standards: manuals, pictures, blueprints, translations (we're not in the '90s, there's a HUGE community out there with LOADS of information readily available) 2 to 3 weeks.
(Research work can be done by everybody according to availability and collated in a shared folder subdivided into sections)
3) in the meantime 3d model design starts:

3d internal and external body, LODs and DM. 4 weeks for a single engine/6 weeks for a multi-engine.

While this is going on, the skin artist works on the texturing in liaison with the 3d modellers. ongoing with 3d model.

3d model is completed, checked for bugs (possibly by another team) and passed to Phase 2. 1 week

Phase 2:

creation of FMs and DMs (which can happen whilst the other team is working on the 3d model) and implementation into game engine. 2 months

Testing of 3d model and FM. Note that the FM can be initially tested on a 3d mock-up to optimise times. 1 to 2 months

Beta testing 1 week

Final fixes 2 weeks

Now again pardon my lack of competence, but 6 months seem more than enough for the creation of one plane, let's not forget these guys are not doing it in their spare time, but they're steadily working on it (often on weekends apparently!) provided work is happening according to a tidy schedule without interruptions or reassignments to other duties.
When you admit that, is there any need to read the rest?

I know a bit about modelling and have my opinion, but when it comes to FM's other than an aircraft speed I stay away... I don't know about an aircrafts true performance and so avoid the subject.. too many variables. I know about modelling and your underestimating the amount of work and research that has gone and has to go into the models!
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by SiThSpAwN View Post
Its a glass half full/half empty scenario, we all know the problems, we all know what needs to be fixed it just some people focus on the water they have and some focus on the water that isnt there....
Gigabyte X58A-UD5 | Intel i7 930 | Corsair H70 | ATI 5970 | 6GB Kingston DDR3 | Intel 160GB G2 | Win 7 Ultimate 64 Bit |
MONITOR: Acer S243HL.
CASE: Thermaltake LEVEL 10.
INPUTS: KG13 Warthog, Saitek Pedals, Track IR 4.

Last edited by JG52Krupi; 01-27-2012 at 01:55 PM.
  #102  
Old 01-27-2012, 01:53 PM
Aer9o Aer9o is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 179
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335th_GRAthos View Post
Well, I admit this is a better communication "package" compared to the last one I gave you my feedback upon (the infamous "balalaika" youtube video...).

Still, you are becoming masters in disguise... (I avoid using the term masters of deception out of politness).
I had to read the text twice to understand. Worthy of SunZu's teachings, brilliantly worded, it earns my respect!
Cudos to your effort!

Now that I have given you credit for the worthwhile effort, please allow me to tell you some things which I appreciated less:
Pretty pictures - little content.
You left us with a memory leak that grows to 4Gb RAM before crashing, obliging us to restart the game after every flight, for weeks now.
Careful reading of your statements makes me deduct that you have not being able to trace the cause of the memory leak much less provide a fix for it.
More concerning, no comment any more about the complete graphics model overhaul (which was the cause for not creating an intermediary patch).
Last but not least, no comments on the current flight model bugs in terms of performance of existing airplanes (e.g. SpitII) and funtionality of airplanes (e.g. JU-88 not working gyros).
Not posting a single date/ timeframe for completion of tasks (any task!) makes me speechless.

No need to worry gentlemen, I will buy your next sequel, and the one after that.

What frustrates me is that I am 46years old, have four university degrees (= my brain is working) but sometimes I feel I am reading communication destined to 12 year olds...

~S~
47 ...and feel the same! (with degree in engineering + ...other various qualifications)
  #103  
Old 01-27-2012, 01:54 PM
Sternjaeger II Sternjaeger II is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,903
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JG52Krupi View Post
When you admit that is there any need to read the rest?
well, that was just my professional advice, project managing and solution packages is what I do for a living, but I'm sure that your constructive posts attacking me at any given chance do us more good than harm, carry on.
  #104  
Old 01-27-2012, 02:00 PM
Tvrdi
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

@Krupi - you know very well that WW2 genre is (way) more popular than WW1....besides, I see at least 3 full servers EVERY night on ROF server list (and be aware its not steam game and majority of players are offliners, by far) unlike CLOD...
@Bongodriver - I would sell my copy right away but somehow this game costs 11 bucks today and I purchased it for 50 bucks on the release day..another fraud

And, Krupi, to be fair (like always) CLOD has a great FM and DM...I really like it...cockpits are beautiful...new sounds...but the core engine is badly optimised...then, ghost trees, not working AA (ingame), landscape (to some extent), thats just bad....thats truth...admit mate....but you wont...

cool signature you have

Last edited by Tvrdi; 01-27-2012 at 02:04 PM.
  #105  
Old 01-27-2012, 02:00 PM
Sternjaeger II Sternjaeger II is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,903
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JG52Krupi View Post
I know a bit about modelling and have my opinion, but when it comes to FM's other than an aircraft speed I stay away... I don't know about an aircrafts true performance and so avoid the subject.. too many variables. I know about modelling and your underestimating the amount of work and research that has gone and has to go into the models!
am I? You obviously never worked for a serious company.

The time estimate I'm giving there is not how much it takes them, but how much it should. If they can't keep up with such numbers, then it's either a case of hiring more people or sacking who you have to substitute them with someone more efficient. This sim thing might be a hobby to you, but to them it's a job.

You can't change your organic? Well either you change your work routines or simply change target. It's like having a pots and pans factory going from making pots and pans (IL-2 Sturmovik) to producing an aeroplane (Cliffs of Dover): either you change your standards, adapt your line of management, hire consultants and reassess personnel, or it's gonna take you forever and you might never deliver one complete product.

Sometimes I really do wonder on what planet some of you guys live...
  #106  
Old 01-27-2012, 02:03 PM
JG52Uther's Avatar
JG52Uther JG52Uther is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 2,352
Default

Bye Gravy AKA Tree_UK AKA Crane
__________________
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu               /image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2975&             dateline=1336686751


Q6600 @ 2.4 / 4 GB ddr2 / GTX285 1 gb gfx / W7 64
Whiners to fanboys in one move, who'd a thought it!

Last edited by JG52Uther; 01-27-2012 at 02:19 PM.
  #107  
Old 01-27-2012, 02:03 PM
JG52Krupi's Avatar
JG52Krupi JG52Krupi is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,124
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II View Post
well, that was just my professional advice, project managing and solution packages is what I do for a living, but I'm sure that your constructive posts attacking me at any given chance do us more good than harm, carry on.
Okay, I apologize for "attacking" you earlier now you can apologize for the generalizing "attack" that us brits think that we won the war at BOB

I am not singling you out, you just happen to be one the few that simply are unaware of the level of detail and work that has gone into the models.
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by SiThSpAwN View Post
Its a glass half full/half empty scenario, we all know the problems, we all know what needs to be fixed it just some people focus on the water they have and some focus on the water that isnt there....
Gigabyte X58A-UD5 | Intel i7 930 | Corsair H70 | ATI 5970 | 6GB Kingston DDR3 | Intel 160GB G2 | Win 7 Ultimate 64 Bit |
MONITOR: Acer S243HL.
CASE: Thermaltake LEVEL 10.
INPUTS: KG13 Warthog, Saitek Pedals, Track IR 4.
  #108  
Old 01-27-2012, 02:06 PM
J.Reb J.Reb is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335th_GRAthos View Post
Well, I admit this is a better communication "package" compared to the last one I gave you my feedback upon (the infamous "balalaika" youtube video...).

Still, you are becoming masters in disguise... (I avoid using the term masters of deception out of politness).
I had to read the text twice to understand. Worthy of SunZu's teachings, brilliantly worded, it earns my respect!
Cudos to your effort!

Now that I have given you credit for the worthwhile effort, please allow me to tell you some things which I appreciated less:
Pretty pictures - little content.
You left us with a memory leak that grows to 4Gb RAM before crashing, obliging us to restart the game after every flight, for weeks now.
Careful reading of your statements makes me deduct that you have not being able to trace the cause of the memory leak much less provide a fix for it.
More concerning, no comment any more about the complete graphics model overhaul (which was the cause for not creating an intermediary patch).
Last but not least, no comments on the current flight model bugs in terms of performance of existing airplanes (e.g. SpitII) and funtionality of airplanes (e.g. JU-88 not working gyros).
Not posting a single date/ timeframe for completion of tasks (any task!) makes me speechless.

No need to worry gentlemen, I will buy your next sequel, and the one after that.

What frustrates me is that I am 46years old, have four university degrees (= my brain is working) but sometimes I feel I am reading communication destined to 12 year olds...

~S~
Not 12 year olds, since the age of reason is 7. Instead I think a lot of software/gaming junkies who do not connect with other areas such as performance, scheduling, and customer satisfaction.

The attitude of "it'll get done when it's done" will get you fired in most companies, and in all reputable companies.
  #109  
Old 01-27-2012, 02:11 PM
ATAG_Doc ATAG_Doc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: A brothel in the Mekong Delta
Posts: 1,546
Default

Thank you BlackSix and thank all the persons working hard on this project. Many of us really look forward to the I-16 especially! You're doing a fantastic job! Keep it up!
  #110  
Old 01-27-2012, 02:11 PM
Aer9o Aer9o is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 179
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Reb View Post
Not 12 year olds, since the age of reason is 7. Instead I think a lot of software/gaming junkies who do not connect with other areas such as performance, scheduling, and customer satisfaction.

The attitude of "it'll get done when it's done" will get you fired in most companies, and in all reputable companies.
Sadly there is a tradition of "done when its done" ... the 2 wks thing! which started back in Il2 era!
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:58 AM.

Based on a design by: Miner Skinz.com

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2007 1C Company. All rights reserved.