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IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator.

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  #821  
Old 01-08-2010, 08:39 AM
FAE_Cazador FAE_Cazador is offline
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Hello DT !

Just a little request for Coop missions:

Could it be possible that static or running tanks do not try to shoot down enemy planes flying over them, using their main guns? This is a very funny and amazing behaviour, away from real world !!

This is quite common in On Line gaming, in which a column of tanks, advancing to attack an enemy position, when attacked by fighter-bombers, forget to fight against other enemy tanks or anti-tank guns and turn their turrets and level their guns aiming and shooting at the planes !! With little success I would say, but, this diverts them from their main target, the enemy ground units.

I don't mean armoured Flak vehicles as Wilberwind, Ostwind etc. but common tanks like T-70, T-34, P-IVJ etc. You can see them if you take a track and watch it from a ground camera.

Thank you again for your excellent work, and please, keep it on, you have given us back the illusion and interest into IL-2 Shturmovik !!
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Last edited by FAE_Cazador; 01-08-2010 at 08:45 AM.
  #822  
Old 01-09-2010, 05:15 AM
Bearcat Bearcat is offline
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Originally Posted by Bearcat View Post
I don't know if this has been addressed before or not, and it is a small thing... but can we drop the m in the version number when it comes up on the splash screen? Remember that was a throwback to the days when you could run two versions of the sim.. either PF standalone or PF merged.. That is no longer the issue so can we just start calling the versions ver X.xx ... ? I know it is a small thing and I asked tghis question a while back but I cant find the reply or the post...
Well........... What about it?
  #823  
Old 01-09-2010, 10:07 AM
SaQSoN SaQSoN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAE_Cazador View Post
Hello DT !

Just a little request for Coop missions:

Could it be possible that static or running tanks do not try to shoot down enemy planes flying over them, using their main guns? This is a very funny and amazing behaviour, away from real world !!
It is from the real world. Tanks were often using main guns to shoot low flying planes. You can find this in many IL-2 pilot's accounts.
  #824  
Old 01-09-2010, 11:47 AM
FAE_Cazador FAE_Cazador is offline
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Excuse me, but I consider very improbable that a main gun of a WWII tank, can track, aim and hit a flying plane, moving at, let's say, even as low as 200 Km/h. They had neither tracking capacity (slow moving turret, small elevation angle of the gun), nor aiming devices (sights) to predict a succesful shot, nor suitable ammo (too big caliber with no proximity fuzes) to get a hit

So the probability of a hit in RL was really very very small, close to zero.

Of course, some tank crews might have shot their main guns to planes to boost their morale, but this would be the only effect they could get. IMHO, hits shouldn't be as common as in IL-2 are. Perhaps 1 in millions , but I think it wouldn't justify to include this as a normal behaviour of the AI tanks in this Sim . Specially if there are other enemy ground units nearby which are shooting to your tank !

Pilots may got hit by heavy AA guns, or medium AA guns (37-40 mm) ,and light AA (20-25 mm) indeed.

I have to say that I consider a privilege to be answered by the own famous Mr SaQSon, , glad to meet you, Sir
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Last edited by FAE_Cazador; 01-09-2010 at 11:59 AM.
  #825  
Old 01-09-2010, 01:14 PM
FAE_Cazador FAE_Cazador is offline
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Just as a funny picture of this, here you can see a iL-2 track in which a row of 20 T-70 tanks shoot a flying Stuka. Same happen with Panzer-III and Il-2, for instance.

After 3 minutes of shooting, the Stuka gets her tail and leg blown off. At minute 6, another hit blows her wing.

Given every tank is shooting more or less every 6-8 seconds, in total about 500 tank shots were needed to hit severely the plane, and another 500 to shot it down (25 shots/tank for first hit, 50 shots/tank the final hit).

Good aim, isn'it?
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Last edited by FAE_Cazador; 01-09-2010 at 03:29 PM.
  #826  
Old 01-09-2010, 03:48 PM
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KG26_Alpha KG26_Alpha is offline
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I forget the AI ratio for artillery and armour but I remember it being done not on a 1 to 1 basis, the reason was to cut down on placing too many AI objects and causing stutters from the CPU calculations.

This was a long time ago when systems were 16/32/64mb GPU and processors were @ 1500- 1800 mhz but don't quote me on exact numbers here

1 tank = 4
1 AAA = 3
4 AI Bombers = 8

Oleg said regarding bombers the AI capability was to simulate you attacking a larger formation with half the aircraft, again don't quote me directly as this was along time ago.

So regarding tanks and artillery and AI behaviour it might be the TD.DT guys can "officially" do something.
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  #827  
Old 01-10-2010, 01:13 AM
Eldur Eldur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaQSoN View Post
It is from the real world. Tanks were often using main guns to shoot low flying planes. You can find this in many IL-2 pilot's accounts.
What's often? And are there any accounts on successful use of this?
To me it seams to be a specific thing that may have happened just on the Eastern Front. It's similar to all the planes dropping bombs just in pairs because the Russians did so.
Seriously, the problem is that tanks act like AAA installments as soon as planes come close. They forget about everything while attacking planes. Not to mention that I've had quite some unbelievable "killed by tank main gun" situations in multiple years of Il-2 experience. They hit at any angle they can shoot at, regardless of the target's parameters. But this is a general AAA problem which just becomes most obvious by the tank gunnery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha View Post
I forget the AI ratio for artillery and armour but I remember it being done not on a 1 to 1 basis, the reason was to cut down on placing too many AI objects and causing stutters from the CPU calculations.

This was a long time ago when systems were 16/32/64mb GPU and processors were @ 1500- 1800 mhz but don't quote me on exact numbers here

1 tank = 4
1 AAA = 3
4 AI Bombers = 8

Oleg said regarding bombers the AI capability was to simulate you attacking a larger formation with half the aircraft, again don't quote me directly as this was along time ago.

So regarding tanks and artillery and AI behaviour it might be the TD.DT guys can "officially" do something.
If that's right, it should be changed to 1:1 immediately. I remember we had bullet packages of 1:2, 1:3 and even 1:4 or 1:5 in the first Il-2 versions. They all were changed to 1:1 except the MG 17.

I flew a mission with 50+ bombers some weeks ago in an online coop. No problem. But it would have been 5+ years ago. But now, we all have better rigs that can handle more stuff. Get rid of any "packaging" things and make it more realistic 1:1. I'd even drop the graphics for it if it would be too slow then. I don't have the most recent hardware, but I run '46 with LandGeom at up to 150fps now. I know that others already had this 3-4 years ago with expensive rigs at that time. But now you'll spend some 500-800 bucks for a complete rig that has this power.
  #828  
Old 01-10-2010, 06:58 AM
SaQSoN SaQSoN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldur View Post
What's often?
Often enough for the Soviet command to issue a recommendation to never build an attack pattern on a tank column along this column, which would give tanks more time to aim at attacker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldur View Post
And are there any accounts on successful use of this?
The most peculiar account of a Sturmovik pilot, downed by a tank, I found in Drabkin's book "I fought in Sturmovik". The guy was attacking German tank column going along it and from behind. When he started to turn his plane for a second approach, banking it to almost 90 degree right in front of the column, his plane was hit in a fuselage by 88mm AP shell right between him and his gunner. The shell passed through canopy, main fuel tank, blowing out all fuel and exited through the bottom of the plane. Fortunately for the guy, no fire was started and no controls were damaged.
Having only about 3 minutes worth of fuel, he managed to crash land his plane close to friendly troops and returned with his gunner to the airfield on foot. The plane was also salvaged few days later, since Germans were retreating from this area.

And there were few more accounts where pilots claimed, they saw tanks shooting at them, when they were flying low, attacking tank/vehicle columns on march.

PS Obviously, IRL hardly a tank, engaged in a ground battle would try to attack a plane, flying above. This only happened, when tanks didn't have any other target, i.e. on march, mostly. In the game the AI for ground units is simplified to save processing resources for a more important tasks. So they just choose a nearest enemy target, disregarding it's value, or danger level. That is why, they will shoot at you, instead of the enemy tanks, when you are flying too close to them. But that's a game, after all.

Last edited by SaQSoN; 01-10-2010 at 07:09 AM.
  #829  
Old 01-10-2010, 08:17 AM
Lucas_From_Hell Lucas_From_Hell is offline
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Direct hit by 88mm round and still flying ?!

Well, Il-2 vs. Panzer is just a regular tank battle then
  #830  
Old 01-10-2010, 09:19 AM
SaQSoN SaQSoN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_From_Hell View Post
Direct hit by 88mm round and still flying ?!
As I wrote, fortunately for them, it was AP shell, it just went through the plane not even noticing it. If the tank gun was loaded with the HE ammo, they'd be blown to pieces.
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