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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer 1C: Maddox Games.

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  #51  
Old 10-08-2012, 02:46 PM
DefiantMk1 DefiantMk1 is offline
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Honestly I think the problem with Clod doesn't stem from a technical standpoint, but rather a business model which isn't bringing in enough money and I have my serious doubts whether the Russian Front will make any difference.

I know there are a few vocal people who hate DLC, but look at the active development of two other titles, ie DCS series and Rise of Flight, both have come a long way and continue to grow, while Clod has stalled and patches seem to be slow in coming and rare.

As for the thread title, yes those planes do make much more sense to me for sure, and what about add-on aircraft? Expansion packs? Or just have a couple of free planes and then the rest DLC?
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  #52  
Old 10-08-2012, 03:58 PM
OB1 OB1 is offline
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Originally Posted by DefiantMk1 View Post
Honestly I think the problem with Clod doesn't stem from a technical standpoint, but rather a business model which isn't bringing in enough money and I have my serious doubts whether the Russian Front will make any difference.

I know there are a few vocal people who hate DLC, but look at the active development of two other titles, ie DCS series and Rise of Flight, both have come a long way and continue to grow, while Clod has stalled and patches seem to be slow in coming and rare.
You are right. Bean counters are the cause of many development fails in the gaming industry these days.. Except the bean counters in this case don't care much for the income over an extended time they just care about the insta cash they can make of us from the initial release and furthermore the bean counters in this case belong to Ubisoft.

Looking at both successful sim developers Eagle Dynamics and 777 studios have something in common with each other. They both develop and publish their own products. The unfortunate relationship 1c has with Ubisoft does not give them the flexibility they need.

Damage is done 1c was forced to release their unfinished game on Ubisofts terms. Now that Ubisoft has our money they couldn't care less about the future of cliffs of dover.

Ubisoft just hopes that we are dumb enough to buy the expansion, another unfinished project so they can fill their pockets even more.

People are not vocal about DLC's in general we just dont like the way Russian front is being forced out before they fix the actual game its supposed to complement, and forced out for the very reasons I have stated above.
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  #53  
Old 10-08-2012, 04:31 PM
ATAG_Doc ATAG_Doc is offline
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Listen to them. They have years of experience here. They run successful businesses of their own so you should take their advise. A man with a theory is never at the mercy of one with experience ya know. Just sayin ....
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  #54  
Old 10-08-2012, 05:36 PM
ATAG_Doc ATAG_Doc is offline
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I cannot wait for the next release either. If I could get an advanced purchase done today I would and so would many others. They should be ready to do exactly this before the end of this year. I cannot wait.
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  #55  
Old 10-08-2012, 06:02 PM
Chivas Chivas is offline
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Originally Posted by OB1 View Post
You are right. Bean counters are the cause of many development fails in the gaming industry these days.. Except the bean counters in this case don't care much for the income over an extended time they just care about the insta cash they can make of us from the initial release and furthermore the bean counters in this case belong to Ubisoft.

Looking at both successful sim developers Eagle Dynamics and 777 studios have something in common with each other. They both develop and publish their own products. The unfortunate relationship 1c has with Ubisoft does not give them the flexibility they need.

Damage is done 1c was forced to release their unfinished game on Ubisofts terms. Now that Ubisoft has our money they couldn't care less about the future of cliffs of dover.

Ubisoft just hopes that we are dumb enough to buy the expansion, another unfinished project so they can fill their pockets even more.

People are not vocal about DLC's in general we just dont like the way Russian front is being forced out before they fix the actual game its supposed to complement, and forced out for the very reasons I have stated above.
I doubt Ubisoft is currently a major investor in the new series and has much say in the development. The IC group definitely does. Ubisoft has some rights to sales in the Western market and requested the development make changes to the epilepsy conditions of the sim before they could release it in the west, otherwise they would be have left themselves vulnerable to lawsuits.

Ubisoft may have made some money on the sales of COD, if their investment wasn't too large, but the IC groups investment was way to large for any hope of recouping their monies. IC has invested millions, even if COD were a success it probably wouldn't have recouped those costs. The only way they make any money is thru sales of a number of Sequels, and the first thing that has to happen is a successful first Sequel. Its highly doubtful the IC group is stupid enough to think that most people will blindly buy the Sequel, and will make every effort to finish and refine the game engine and features to make the Sequel a success.
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  #56  
Old 10-08-2012, 06:12 PM
ATAG_Doc ATAG_Doc is offline
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Obviously you're a high rolling hedge fund manager with all this inside knowledge. Oh great oracle...please tell us if we should buy or hold.
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  #57  
Old 10-08-2012, 06:35 PM
OB1 OB1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Chivas View Post
Its highly doubtful the IC group is stupid enough to think that most people will blindly buy the Sequel, and will make every effort to finish and refine the game engine and features to make the Sequel a success.
I hope the lack of information on the poor condition of the game at the time of release is not an indication of a pure profit driven attitude. Cliffs of Dover does atlest seem a passion driven project.

I do really hope they, as you said "make every effort to finish and refine the game engine and features to make the Sequel a success"

That said I also hope that costumers don't blindly go throwing their money at a sequel on faith or you do risk the common recurrence of developers in it for a quick buck, common to most other developers and publishers using status that was earned with previous success on similar products. But as you said 1c has put themselves in a position where they have to deliver or sink..

In general people should be more careful and reserved when purchasing to help cut down on the publishers taking advantage of hyped sales.
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  #58  
Old 10-08-2012, 07:25 PM
Chivas Chivas is offline
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Originally Posted by OB1 View Post
I hope the lack of information on the poor condition of the game at the time of release is not an indication of a pure profit driven attitude. Cliffs of Dover does atlest seem a passion driven project.

I do really hope they, as you said "make every effort to finish and refine the game engine and features to make the Sequel a success"

That said I also hope that costumers don't blindly go throwing their money at a sequel on faith or you do risk the common recurrence of developers in it for a quick buck, common to most other developers and publishers using status that was earned with previous success on similar products. But as you said 1c has put themselves in a position where they have to deliver or sink..

In general people should be more careful and reserved when purchasing to help cut down on the publishers taking advantage of hyped sales.
I agree the publishers were less than truthful about the state of the sim at release. It was a catch 22 situation, if they advertised we were buying an unfinished, unplayable, sim, what do you think the sales would have been? As it stands, the sales were strong enough to indicate to the investors that continued funding of the development would give them a better chance for a return on their investment.

People blindly bought COD based on the work developers have done with the original series, that "won't" happen again. Certainly not enough to sustain the development. The developers/publishers know it and we know it, thats why they will "make every effort to finish and refine the game engine and features to make the Sequel a success".

Its also interesting that most people like myself bought the sim even after reading all the bad reviews from the East, with the thought the development has a history of staying the course with their projects. They've done just that over the last couple of years, but financing drives every effort, and that forcing them to concentrate on the Sequel. That said most of the work they are doing to make the Sequel a success, will make the Channel map a success.

Even if all the fixes and features I want, don't make the Sequels release, I will buy it, if reviews indicate that the development has done enough to survive and continue their work. Hopefully most will also feel the same way and sales will be strong enough for the series to survive, improve, and prosper.
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  #59  
Old 10-08-2012, 08:12 PM
OB1 OB1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chivas View Post
I agree the publishers were less than truthful about the state of the sim at release. It was a catch 22 situation, if they advertised we were buying an unfinished, unplayable, sim, what do you think the sales would have been? As it stands, the sales were strong enough to indicate to the investors that continued funding of the development would give them a better chance for a return on their investment.

People blindly bought COD based on the work developers have done with the original series, that "won't" happen again. Certainly not enough to sustain the development. The developers/publishers know it and we know it, thats why they will "make every effort to finish and refine the game engine and features to make the Sequel a success".

Its also interesting that most people like myself bought the sim even after reading all the bad reviews from the East, with the thought the development has a history of staying the course with their projects. They've done just that over the last couple of years, but financing drives every effort, and that forcing them to concentrate on the Sequel. That said most of the work they are doing to make the Sequel a success, will make the Channel map a success.

Even if all the fixes and features I want, don't make the Sequels release, I will buy it, if reviews indicate that the development has done enough to survive and continue their work. Hopefully most will also feel the same way and sales will be strong enough for the series to survive, improve, and prosper.
Its finally good to see I can have an intelligent civil conversation with someone that understands the system and the situation this company and sim is in.

Nothing you have said I can dispute, in fact I agree completely. However maybe it is my experience that leaves me in my state of mind. I bought the collectors edition blindly, the money in its self is of no consequence but I feel my trust based on the status earned earlier on in the series has been used against me.

We cannot debate this issue any further because it now comes down to a matter of opinion and the taste that have been left in peoples mouths after these years of development. My opinion and beliefs in relation to the future of COD remain the same

I myself along with the group of people I fly with will not be purchasing the sequel. Once bitten twice shy. Once they have re-proven themselves I will commit myself and support them once more.
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  #60  
Old 10-11-2012, 07:48 PM
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CaptainDoggles CaptainDoggles is offline
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It's just common sense. A lot of us bought CLOD early, when it wasn't even released in North America yet and technically still in Beta because we believed in Maddox Games' reputation for delivering a quality product.

Obviously in light of what happened it just wouldn't make sense to shell out another 60 bucks for the sequel without waiting for reviews.

It's too bad, because I feel like I'm one of the few guys in N.A. who much prefer the Eastern front to the Western front, especially through the later years of the war. I actually really really really want to get the sequel, but if reviews aren't positive I'll stand on principle and won't buy it.
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