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  #11  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:18 PM
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Wow! If the kickstarter video is just slightly convincing, Im ready to invest cash for sure. Evreybody deserves a second chance and the text reads very promissing.
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  #12  
Old 09-04-2013, 11:05 PM
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Kickstarter funded? Oh poor blokes!
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  #13  
Old 09-05-2013, 12:22 AM
Chivas Chivas is offline
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I like the idea of Kickstarter, where a combat flight sim enthusiast makes a design decision rather than a bean counter.

Luthier's latest comments about kickstarter below.


Luthier
Hello everyone,

We’ll be launching our kickstarter in about 24 hours, or, in the worst case, about 30 hours.

If you’re not sure about what DCS WWII: Europe 1944 is, please read the official announcement or join the discussion here.

There are a few very important points we’d like to make:

1. The project is at a very early stage.
Normally, video game development goes something like this. You go through some initial planning and discussion. You agree on budget and schedule, then begin the development. After some months, or maybe even years, you arrive at a playable mock-up or maybe a pre-alpha version. You announce the project, show what you have to the fans, and move forward.
With DCS WWII, we’re doing something different. We are in the very early initial design stage. If things were done the normal way, we’d be about six months away from an official announcement.
Why then are we doing this? Because we are not working with a publisher. When we looked at our budget and our schedule, we realized we’d be cutting it very close and we’d really need a bit more money and a bit more time to really do things comfortably. So we decided to go the kickstarter route. It should give us the freedom to really perfect our game; and perhaps even allow us to make a larger product if we manage to hit our stretch goals.
And so, we’re back to the main point. The project is very, very early. Normally we would not show it to the public at this stage.
We could wait six months and go kickstarter then – but then we’d lose the stretch goal option. If we don’t start on, say, a flyable B-17 today, if we wait six months to begin, then we delay its release by six months as well.
So, we know how the community lives to scrutinize every pixel and every word. So please keep in mind that things are not just WIP. They’re so far away from final, they’re all the way back at the other end. They’re “initial”.
Kickstarter changes a lot of things on our end, so please accept it as a change on yours. We’re showing you the project six months before we normally would. Please keep that in mind in all future discussion.

2. Kickstarter can fail.
Here’s how it works.
We are asking for a relatively minor initial sum on kickstarter which is needed to put in a few extra features and really polish and perfect the product.
We obviously need a large number of people to back the project to even hit the initial sum.
If you back the project, but over the course of the kickstarter campaign we fail to reach the initial goal, then the campaign fails and all the money is returned to backers. We the developers receive nothing.
However if we do manage to excite enough fans to back the project in the next 30 days, and we hit our initial goal, then this opens the road to the real meat of the campaign: stretch goals. All money raised will go towards development. If we manage to hit additional stretch goals, we will add a lot more exciting stuff to the project, most importantly new aircraft and new gameplay maps.
However that will require a significant community effort. Larger stretch goals will require thousands and thousands of backers; it’d require the equivalent of everyone who ever bought DCS: P-51 to come in with the purchase price they paid in the next 30 days and back our kickstarter to hit some of the larger stretch goals.
Possible? We hope so. But we’ll need help.

3. We need your help!
What we really need for our project to succeed is exposure.
If you back our project, please tell your friends about it.
Even if you cannot back our project, but are excited about it, tell your friends.
DCS WWII: Europe 1944 requires a large concentrated community effort to become successful.
If you are a journalist, please get in touch.
If you are a member of a flight sim community, please mention our kickstarter on your forums. If your friends have questions, send them here, or send us to them.
We only speak English and Russian. If you are a member of an international flight sim community, help us spread the word in your language!
Please help us get there. We cannot do it on our own!

Thank you very much. We, everyone, myself personally, are unbelievably excited about tomorrow. See you then!
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Last edited by Chivas; 09-05-2013 at 12:28 AM.
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  #14  
Old 09-05-2013, 04:48 AM
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good to see DCS and luthier are already making good progress on their ww2 flightsim project

to obtain extra funding by using kickstarter is a good idea, but i really hope they concentrate on getting their initial game out the door first (the normandy map)

they have one huge advantage in this project, DCS already provides a working flightsim environment for the main game elements that are usually very time consuming to develop. eg, the gfx and game engine, the physics of the flight models, ballistics for munitions, the ability to move ground troops/vehicles in a game environment, dynamic campaign, stable multiplayer netcode, etc... there is even already a p51 aircraft created by DCS, and a near finished fw190 soon to be released.

imho DCS and luthier should focus on quickly creating a single new map (normandy) and integrate all the great DCS working elements that already exist: then add some new ww2 objects, use the already existing p51 and fw190 as flyable planes, add a few new AI aircraft (so external models only), and quickly release their initial game. this will attract an initial group of customers/players that inject further funds, and create a working game environment for them to expand on. there are a large amount of DCS customers who have been asking for a ww2 flightsim expansion, and this is illustrated by the part of their customer base that was willing to buy a single ww2 aircraft (the p51) that didnt even have a ww2 environment for it to be used in. the worst possible scenario right now is this "stretch goals" business (if i understood it correctly), where you get ever bigger ideas that keep expanding and result in slipping time lines (as it did with SoW)

use the kickstarter funds to start creating a few additional aircraft (and a 2e map) that otherwise might take an additional 12 months to develop after the first game is released, yes, but to use kickstarter to delay releasing the initial ww2 sim (which integrates all the working DCS element that already exist) i'd say is a big NO !! if luthier and DCS waste the huge advantage they already have right now by being able to use the already working DCS elements, you might as well bring out the singing fat lady right now. a huge amount of goodwill was lost in the ww2 flightsim community by the ever slipping deadlines of SoW, and i dont think the bulk of the community is going to put up with lots of hype and promises of great things to come somewhere in the distant future, it would be a huge miscalculation for them to do so.
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Last edited by zapatista; 09-05-2013 at 04:54 AM.
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  #15  
Old 09-05-2013, 07:15 AM
Chivas Chivas is offline
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I'm quite sure Luthier realizes that having people wait three more years because he met the kickstarter stretch goals would be a big problem, but that's not what he's saying. He saying whether we choose to believe him or not is.....he would hire extra people who would work in parallel to the existing people doing the basic sim, so that the additional material would be done relative close to the due date of the basic sims approx. one year timetable. I've probably poorly worded it, but I think most people would understand what I'm saying.
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  #16  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zapatista View Post
good to see DCS and luthier are already making good progress on their ww2 flightsim project

to obtain extra funding by using kickstarter is a good idea, but i really hope they concentrate on getting their initial game out the door first (the normandy map)

they have one huge advantage in this project, DCS already provides a working flightsim environment for the main game elements that are usually very time consuming to develop. eg, the gfx and game engine, the physics of the flight models, ballistics for munitions, the ability to move ground troops/vehicles in a game environment, dynamic campaign, stable multiplayer netcode, etc... there is even already a p51 aircraft created by DCS, and a near finished fw190 soon to be released.

imho DCS and luthier should focus on quickly creating a single new map (normandy) and integrate all the great DCS working elements that already exist: then add some new ww2 objects, use the already existing p51 and fw190 as flyable planes, add a few new AI aircraft (so external models only), and quickly release their initial game. this will attract an initial group of customers/players that inject further funds, and create a working game environment for them to expand on. there are a large amount of DCS customers who have been asking for a ww2 flightsim expansion, and this is illustrated by the part of their customer base that was willing to buy a single ww2 aircraft (the p51) that didnt even have a ww2 environment for it to be used in. the worst possible scenario right now is this "stretch goals" business (if i understood it correctly), where you get ever bigger ideas that keep expanding and result in slipping time lines (as it did with SoW)

use the kickstarter funds to start creating a few additional aircraft (and a 2e map) that otherwise might take an additional 12 months to develop after the first game is released, yes, but to use kickstarter to delay releasing the initial ww2 sim (which integrates all the working DCS element that already exist) i'd say is a big NO !! if luthier and DCS waste the huge advantage they already have right now by being able to use the already working DCS elements, you might as well bring out the singing fat lady right now. a huge amount of goodwill was lost in the ww2 flightsim community by the ever slipping deadlines of SoW, and i dont think the bulk of the community is going to put up with lots of hype and promises of great things to come somewhere in the distant future, it would be a huge miscalculation for them to do so.

I've been looking around over there recently, they seem to have a lot of problems...
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Last edited by SlipBall; 09-05-2013 at 08:53 AM.
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  #17  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chivas View Post
I'm quite sure Luthier realizes that having people wait three more years because he met the kickstarter stretch goals would be a big problem, but that's not what he's saying. He saying whether we choose to believe him or not is.....he would hire extra people who would work in parallel to the existing people doing the basic sim, so that the additional material would be done relative close to the due date of the basic sims approx. one year timetable. I've probably poorly worded it, but I think most people would understand what I'm saying.
i hope you'r right about the additional "kickstarter funded development" working in parallel with their main ww2 flightsim development project.
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  #18  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlipBall View Post
I've been looking around over there recently, they seem to have a lot of problems...
like what ?

re DCS, i'd say the exact opposite. they are known for their solid track record in regularly producing new high quality combat flightsim elements. they do keep to their deadlines, work with a small team, and their larger more ambitious new projects (like their new gfx engine, EDGE) are not given a firm release date until very close to completion.

for the eager beavers they provide a beta product purchase system that provides significant advantages, not only do you get to play around with your new toy early, most beta stage releases are usually already pretty good and they will give you a significant discount on the final purchase price for doing so. cant be more fair then that imho

for their finished flightsim products, their netcode is solid, they have a good multiplayer function, a very advanced mission builder that provides a dynamic campaign function, and their avionics, flightmodels, and weapons systems and ballistics are very good (near military sim grade basically). my only gripe with them is that the modern era in flightsims is just not my cup 'a tea, and i'd wish they would focus more on ww2 or korean era (which we are about to receive now in the next year).
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  #19  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zapatista View Post
like what ?

re DCS, i'd say the exact opposite. they are known for their solid track record in regularly producing new high quality combat flightsim elements. they do keep to their deadlines, work with a small team, and their larger more ambitious new projects (like their new gfx engine, EDGE) are not given a firm release date until very close to completion.

for the eager beavers they provide a beta product purchase system that provides significant advantages, not only do you get to play around with your new toy early, most beta stage releases are usually already pretty good and they will give you a significant discount on the final purchase price for doing so. cant be more fair then that imho

for their finished flightsim products, their netcode is solid, they have a good multiplayer function, a very advanced mission builder that provides a dynamic campaign function, and their avionics, flightmodels, and weapons systems and ballistics are very good (near military sim grade basically). my only gripe with them is that the modern era in flightsims is just not my cup 'a tea, and i'd wish they would focus more on ww2 or korean era (which we are about to receive now in the next year).

Yea I looked again, was mostly inexperienced peoples with the problems
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  #20  
Old 09-05-2013, 01:16 PM
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Good news

Quote:
Originally Posted by luthier
I'm sorry guys, I'm moving - divorce, trucks, division of property. In the new place internet is not connected, so communication is complex.

I will reply to all, but with delays.

Quote: Originally Posted by Steam
1. What size map are planning to release it in detail and compliance history and that of the place?
Cherbourg - Falaise - Rouen about.


Detailing is high. Some places are played 1-to-1. For example Pointe du Hoc is made with all the bunkers, trenches, cliffs, craters from bombs. Complies with staggering. Other important places of the city, the battlefields,we will also copy.
The rest of card - the similarity in the middle distance. Village-roads in the right places, but the home-streets will be averaged.

Quote: Originally Posted by Steam
2. How many man hours scheduled for the creation of one fighter from the ground until you are ready?


Too many Creating 3D models in general is going smooth, get the hand to do very quickly. But the programming and testing for a long time, especially by the standards of my old projects. We are trying to understand whether we can accelerate without losing quality, as we found with the 3D.

So about a one man year+ a couple of months, depending on the complexity of the systems.

Quote: Originally Posted by Steam
3. Tell us about DM.


Like in Musa[Mustang].

Quote: Originally Posted by Steam
4. How many people in the development team, who work full-time?


Now 9. After Kick will grow, as a result thereof.

Quote: Originally Posted by Steam
5. Who will communicate with the community?

Mua.

Quote: Originally Posted by Steam
6. Will Friday's update, or some other format?


Probably will, but Pipeline is very long. There will be many times when on the fair will have nothing to show.
"Vasja suffered all week with the chassis and Messer did not work out, and Peter zateksturil back armor to Spit" - update is not specifically good.

Quote: Originally Posted by Steam
7. In which city is the office and a team of developers?


Programmers are all in Moscow, the core of the team there. Also scattered 3D modelers - outsourcers around the planet.

Quote: Originally Posted by Elefant
Tell me please, what is planned bombers??


Unflyable B-17 at level 0.

A-26, Mosquito, and Ju-88 in the more expensive steps.

Flyable B-17 the last one.

Quote: Originally Posted by Theo
Question:
Planned new engine EDZH.
There-there "material" trees?


You mean, with collisions? Testing right now.

Quote: Originally Posted by lightningstrike
after Vagner said that he has no access to information about EDGE which develop there at some of the Minsk studio, thanks to this announcement even though there was a ray of hope about EDGE!

to date, this unexpected EDGE even able to produce 3D cube or triangle?

you can at least see one screen? whether it weighs 3D circle in the clouds or stand-maker in the grass ...


The engine is fully working Screens will be on the 5th of Normandy, houses, trenches, bunkers, statues, cliffs, sea, trees, etc.
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