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IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator.

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  #11  
Old 06-22-2009, 12:29 PM
Bobb4 Bobb4 is offline
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Originally Posted by zapatista View Post
they dont plan to "finish it", they simply will make the missing items in it for sale as addons, expansions and features

the problem is that an unfinished product like that being sold to enough silly people willing to buy it can now be seen by RoF as validation that this sale model works, and that people are prepared to pay full price for that little content

me mentioning they are now already working on a ww2 sim based on the same "game concept" is not idle speculation i grabbed out of the air, i saw this from indications in post from some of their own programmers and designers in other forums

Was not going to take a dig at another sim but, I will anyway.
I remember many months ago having a discussion on OFF about the pricing of their Phase 3.
I was lambasted because I told them the market would not support the high $50 price tag plus shipping. Well it is now selling for a more realistic to quote their site - NEW SPECIAL OFFER - OFF @ $29.99 (+p&p and taxes) see BUY page - Back on topic ROF is bright and shiny and new. But interest is already starting to disipate as reports of problems filter in.
The reason IL2 stood the test of time is because it was a basically sound product from the word go. Yes many patches later it is the near perfection we see today.
Unfortunately ROF is not a sound product. Why would I pay to fly a Fokker DR1 if I am already an ACE in an Albatros. Why would I pay to have winter landscape?
I would pay if the overall game worked, and I was dragged into the world through immersion. Yes buy the game I will, but I doubt I will be buying any add on planes until they offer something concrete in the way of dynamic campaign and better online play.
Unfortunately for them I am the same guy who would buy their WW2 sim. So if I am let down by ROF they cannot realistically expect me to buy their WW2 sim.

One thing I can say about Oleg, his sims have never let me down, even Il2 version one, you know the one, the one that had no flyable Stuka.
Hours of training just to learn how to land a plane properly. Who had ever heard of such a thing.
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  #12  
Old 06-22-2009, 12:37 PM
csThor csThor is offline
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ROF hasn't even scratched the surface of flyable and AI aircraft they need to realistically depict their own "1917" subtitle. If they choose to ignore the scanty planeset and press for a totally new release they'll end up in obscurity - forgotten, ignored and scarcely lamented.
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  #13  
Old 06-22-2009, 12:45 PM
Bearcat Bearcat is offline
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Originally Posted by zapatista View Post

and here is the kicker, to get more maps, more planes, more objects, more seasons, you will have to pay for each item.

then i saw several specific posts from several RoF employees themselves, and this indicated that the missing content in the current game is very deliberate and could have been included from the start, for ex most of their main addon planes for RoF are already finished and they will put them for sale in a gradual manner to keep generating income, and here is the surprising part, that their next project is already started and will focus on ww-2

the main problem i see is that RoF really lowers the standard of what we expect from a decent flightsim, however good it looks and might fly. add to that a limited customer base for flight sims in general, and it can reduce the rapidity that olegs new product can penetrate the market. we have been incredibly lucky with oleg's products in the last years it seems, and if this RoF crap is going to be considered normal in the new future as a game, we'r all in trouble as flightsimmers.
Not as long as 1C is still in the picture.. I don't think that 1C will allow the standards to drop but so low... and they will certainly raise them higher than they are now.... I have not gotten RoF.. even the demo.... I cant speak for anyone else.. but for me the prospect of a limited theater, limited planeset sim with limited online capabilities, by an unproven developer is not a threat to 1C at this point... I think any real simmer is just filling a void until SoW is released.. and once it is released I have little doubt it will do what 1C sims have been doing for almost the last 10 years..

Not only that... I for one am not crazy about the idea of paying peicemeal for things that should be in a sim IMO. 1C has raised the bar... any real contenders will have to meet it or go home.

Last edited by Bearcat; 06-22-2009 at 12:49 PM.
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  #14  
Old 06-22-2009, 02:25 PM
RCAF_FB_Orville RCAF_FB_Orville is offline
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Hmmm. Mixed feelings about Rise of flight at the moment. I was initially very enthusiastic about the sim, having much interest in that era......But recent things coming to light are making me think again. The AI looks incredibly unresponsive when under attack judging from a lot of YT vids I have watched, sometimes it looks like it has taken them an eon to realise they are under fire. The also seem to suffer from the "gang bang" mentality on the friendly side, ala at times IL-2, with 2-3 friendly AI getting in the way of player shots, and seemingly recklessly risking collision with you. Maybe this is harsh, and I do not know how configurable AI difficulty settings are.....Its possible that the makers of these vids had them on "lower" settings, I would hope, as they are just getting used to a new sim.

Now I'm no Physics "Major", but as impressive as some of the effects look, some of them do not look quite right to me. A plane diving at a collosal speed regardless of its weight is going to build up a lot of mass and energy, right? It just seems sometimes that they just crumple like the paper aeroplanes I used to throw at my maths teacher as a kid, when they were'nt looking Maybe I am wrong about this, but I would expect for example them to be impaled into the ground in this scenario, if coming down at speed at a 90 degree angle. Like I say, maybe due to their relatively light weight this would be correct, someone please correct me if this is so.

RE the paying for add ons scenario, I understand the POV that more should be included in the original release, but consider this. Haven't we as simmers been perhaps "spoiled" over the years with free addons, particularly from Oleg and Co? Lets make no mistake, they are in this to make money, and more accurately HAVE to make money, or they will go under like so many before them. A flight sim company succeeding is good news for all of us I believe, because this genre is small enough and arguably endangered as it is.

I guess I fall into the "wait and see" box, I will keep tabs on user opinions as to be honest I don't really know enough about it as of yet. I'll play the demo when it is released, and take it from there.

Like Fox Mulder, I WANT TO BELIEVE, lol.....But by nature have always been a bit of a doubting Thomas

Last edited by RCAF_FB_Orville; 06-22-2009 at 02:33 PM.
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  #15  
Old 06-22-2009, 02:35 PM
Nitro Nitro is offline
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Coming soon!

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  #16  
Old 06-22-2009, 03:10 PM
Tree_UK
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It will be interesting to see where ROF is in a year and half's time when SOW gets released, maybe it will have escalated by then and be a much bigger sim. At the moment it does not interest me that much.
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  #17  
Old 06-22-2009, 05:03 PM
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brando brando is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csThor View Post
ROF hasn't even scratched the surface of flyable and AI aircraft they need to realistically depict their own "1917" subtitle.
Especially when half the flyable aircraft hadn't even been introduced into service by the end of that year!

"The D.VII entered squadron service with Jasta 10 in early May 1918." Anyone can find out that information by googling Fokker DVII - but the RoF guys tend to ignore history it seems.

Now, I've read some RoF fans saying that historical context isn't important (@simhq) but I think that's a derisory excuse for such an anachronism. I've always had a love for WW1 aviation: Mickey Mannock and Albert Ball were my father's boyhood heroes and I caught it off him. I would love to take part in a WW1 sim, but nothing about RoF inspires me to buy it.

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  #18  
Old 06-22-2009, 05:39 PM
Chivas Chivas is offline
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Your right that the ROF developers are thinking of going into the WW2 flight sim market, but that in no way puts any pressure on the SOW developers. What I've seen from ROF is very good but no where near the detail the SOW developers are trying to achieve. Not that the ROF developers can't reach that level of detail, but I believe they are atleast a three years behind the development position of SOW.
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  #19  
Old 06-22-2009, 05:56 PM
Chivas Chivas is offline
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I believe the ROF sim will progress nicely over the years of paid and/or unpaid addons. That's if initial sales are good enough for them to continue the project. I also don't have a problem with paying for the added material.

Developing these sims is a very expensive and time consuming project. Releasing an early addition of the sim provides the developer with some much need cash. It lets them know if there is enough interest by the flight sim community to continue the years of labour.

Lets face it 39 bucks is nothing and paying a few bucks more for each aircraft or two combined other improvements to the sim is also very very cheap. I know Oleg doesn't see this as a route he wants to follow, but basicly hes doing the same thing. Hes just providing more content, for more money, at longer intervals. While ROF is providing less content, for less money, at shorter intervals.

Shorter intervals are not a bad idea as you know how little patience some in the flight sim community have.
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  #20  
Old 06-22-2009, 06:33 PM
Insuber Insuber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobb4 View Post
Was not going to take a dig at another sim but, I will anyway.
I remember many months ago having a discussion on OFF about the pricing of their Phase 3.
I was lambasted because I told them the market would not support the high $50 price tag plus shipping. Well it is now selling for a more realistic to quote their site - NEW SPECIAL OFFER - OFF @ $29.99 (+p&p and taxes) see BUY page - Back on topic ROF is bright and shiny and new. But interest is already starting to disipate as reports of problems filter in.
The reason IL2 stood the test of time is because it was a basically sound product from the word go. Yes many patches later it is the near perfection we see today.
Unfortunately ROF is not a sound product. Why would I pay to fly a Fokker DR1 if I am already an ACE in an Albatros. Why would I pay to have winter landscape?
I would pay if the overall game worked, and I was dragged into the world through immersion. Yes buy the game I will, but I doubt I will be buying any add on planes until they offer something concrete in the way of dynamic campaign and better online play.
Unfortunately for them I am the same guy who would buy their WW2 sim. So if I am let down by ROF they cannot realistically expect me to buy their WW2 sim.

One thing I can say about Oleg, his sims have never let me down, even Il2 version one, you know the one, the one that had no flyable Stuka.
Hours of training just to learn how to land a plane properly. Who had ever heard of such a thing.
+1. We can complain about Il2 defects or omissions, but after a quick reality check with the competitors' products we go back to father Oleg as a bunch of prodigal sons.

Regards,
Insuber
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