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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer 1C: Maddox Games.

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  #161  
Old 12-23-2011, 09:23 PM
Havoc04 Havoc04 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tavingon View Post
I am worried..
Indeed. So am i.
I keep seeing SEQUEL at the end of sentences of things that you would hope would have been included in a patch that equals no money.

But thats only guess work on my behalf but i can only summarize from what has been posted.

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  #162  
Old 12-23-2011, 09:23 PM
Urufu_Shinjiro Urufu_Shinjiro is offline
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Originally Posted by addman View Post
Maybe you remember %^@&^@%@
GAK!!! Don't say that name! You might invoke him, lol.
  #163  
Old 12-23-2011, 09:29 PM
Urufu_Shinjiro Urufu_Shinjiro is offline
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Originally Posted by Havoc04 View Post
Well it seems that after reading all of that. That in order to see improvements in CLOD you will have to buy the expansion.. And i get the horrible feeling that the next patch will BE the expansion, which equals paying cash for fixes. I certainly HOPE this isn't the case. Am i complaining? Sure am

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Originally Posted by Tavingon View Post
I am worried..
OMG!!!! Really? Stop perpetuating these rumors! Did you even read what Luthier wrote in this very thread this very day?

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Originally Posted by luthier View Post
Hey folks,

I see that these answers led some folks here, and most of the folks on my favorite sukhoi.ru, to read between the lines and see my answers to specific questions as indications of larger-scale abandonment of the project.

That's not the case at all.

I answered specific questions and didn't touch on the larger effort. It remains the same. Sped up graphics, launcher errors, improved FM, etc, all of that is in progress as previously stated.

We are trying to pull off a very difficult balancing act with developing a new game and supporting an old one at the same time. Pretty much no one does that. Most large developers simply release games, support them for a month at the most, and then switch to new paid content regardless of the state of the game. We are however trying not only to patch up major issues, we're working on improving things that generally work - and we're doing that for free seven months after release. We are doing that by trying to parallel tasks as much as possible and improving CoD while developing a sequel.

That is however simply not possible with some features. In some cases that's a question of limited resources. We cannot make a new flyable for CoD because that means one less flyable for the sequel. With other tasks it's simply a matter of time. Some of the changes we're making are so sweeping, they're scheduled to be completed very close to the sequel's ship date. The animation for example is such a huge task with so many facets that we can't just take it, turn it into a half a gig patch, and release it for CoD a month before the release of the sequel.

And to make sure to drive my main point across. We are still working on improving CoD. No one's abandoned it. There will be patches. My answers about things in the sequel were meant for those specific features. Please don't try to read between the lines!
  #164  
Old 12-23-2011, 09:36 PM
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ACE-OF-ACES ACE-OF-ACES is offline
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LOL! I've been around since the blue-byte days mate. It was a great time, I kept begging for screenshots of the MiG-3 together with "Cat", maybe you remember her? Maybe you remember Galen Thurber? It doesn't matter what you try to convince other people of, facts still remain and you are pointing to the past and the past doesn't guarantee the future.
Huh.. See I was just giving you the benifit of the doubt.. But if what you say is true, than what your saying is there is no excuse for your actions.. Ok got it thanks!
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  #165  
Old 12-23-2011, 09:37 PM
Havoc04 Havoc04 is offline
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Originally Posted by Urufu_Shinjiro View Post
OMG!!!! Really? Stop perpetuating these rumors! Did you even read what Luthier wrote in this very thread this very day?
Ok fair enough.. But most days i don't have the TIME to go trolling through countless pages of posts to look at everything. That post WAS from the man himself, either amend it to the 1st page or create a new thread so peeps can see. What HE says adds perspective indeed. Fair enough i stand corrected for the most part.

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  #166  
Old 12-23-2011, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES View Post
Huh.. See I was just giving you the benifit of the doubt.. But if what you say is true, than what your saying is there is no excuse for your actions.. Ok got it thanks!
Say wuuut?!
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  #167  
Old 12-23-2011, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Urufu_Shinjiro View Post
GAK!!! Don't say that name! You might invoke him, lol.
LOL! I'm afraid he might already be among us under a different pseudonym.
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  #168  
Old 12-23-2011, 09:55 PM
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Thank's for the answers to some of the questions.
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  #169  
Old 12-23-2011, 10:00 PM
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JG5_emil JG5_emil is offline
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Originally Posted by philip.ed View Post
well said mate.
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Originally Posted by mysticpuma View Post
firstly let me quote the following replies:

Orville:

"so people who could care less about the battle for moscow have to pay yet more in order to see features that were misleadingly continually mooted as being in development for cod, pre release (though cleverly not 'technically' promised i suppose for the pedagogue sophist's around) . No matter what anybody says, that is the truth. Kept that one quiet pre-cod release, eh? Fantastic. No more ships or planes either for cod (aka 'slight skirmish over peckham'). Happy times. I might even be daft enough to buy the sequel.....but you can guarantee others won't. In any event, certainly won't be pre ordering this time. Fool me once.......

Shocking, really."

jg27_mc:

"it's a shame that the most important air battle of history (imho) has been reproduced on this simulation the way it is... I fell completely cheated! Damn this thing had a huge potential... "

csthor:

"the way i am reading things - and i admit that the following contains pure speculation on my part - i am beginning to believe that maddox games consider clod a failed effort and not worth the hassle to fix it. Rewriting the engine (fm, sound, gui ... Anything left that'll not be changed?) tells me that the current engine is not salvagable. Imo the new management 1c got when it merged with softklub last year is another factor in this (read: Money grabbers).

If bom is indeed all that ilya wanted for clod then that would be nice, but from my pov - and i have been an ardent fan of the il-2 series and i have done little bits and things for almost each version of the game, at least until oleg departed - that product will have to be just as big a hit as the original il-2 was. It needs to be thematically sound, needs to have all the relevant objects and aircraft, it will need a much less complicated and nerve-wracking gui, it will need a campaign system that is worth the title ... In short it will need to contain everything that clod is missing right now. That's a tall order, especially since maddox games was never particularly good at developing gameplay factors or not wasting effort on pointless objects/aircraft."

anttik:

"i'm at loss... So to get currently very much incomplete product completed we have to buy the sequel? I'm not talking about which planes and which maps we get, i'm talking about broken features. I thought we'd get the game patched to a standard gold level as per usual for the price we paid for? Did i miss something?"

bigc208:

"luthier is praising himself for still working on the game after 7 months. I see that a bit different. As far as i'm concerned we're still in the 7th month of a paid for beta. I'll regard it the release version when the next patch delivers on the performance increases and bug fix promises. I don't expect a multimillion dollar sim experience for $50. What i do expect is a finished product at some point. If clod is not playable for all (min box spec) before bom is released i'll wait with buying untill the reviews are out. "

csthor:

"and here we seem to disagree on a very fundamental level, ilya. I do not know the business realities of maddox games nor do i wish to know, but in my book clod is at the moment nothing more than an unfinished game engine which is about to be rewritten. It's not a full game, the offline part is too minimal and too incomplete to provide much offline entertainment and the online part is bugged with the crashes, the fmb is still "touchy" in a few areas (i.e. The weather controls) and even the channel map has a few annoying bugs (i.e. The holes in the landscape). Right now clod is - in my opinion - not more than an early alpha. It runs but the content (apart from the aircraft) is not really there, yet.
So this is my impression of the state of things when you posted that certain "features" will be postponed until the sequel. Even for me, and i am not short of a €, this does a lot to increase the wtf? State of mind i'm finding myself in wrt clod. Are you seriously expecting the customers just to shrug and swallow that they'll have to pay yet another full game price just to get features which were promised for clod (some features which i personally regard as vital for any game like a decent campaign mode)? Are you really expecting us to shrug off the total omission of the royal navy?

My point is that switching full-throttle to the production of the sequel, given the way things are atm, is indeed quite a slap into the face of customers who have bought the product in good faith, customers who were looking for a good representation of the battle of britain with all its phases."


i have to say i very much agree with everything above, all of it really hits the nail on the head!



Luthier:

""the graphics reload has finally reached a sufficiently stable alpha state. Public beta is within reach.""

"the ground modeling staff and myself have subsequently made the fully switch that department to the sequel."

luthier:

"we are however trying not only to patch up major issues, we're working on improving things that generally work - and we're doing that for free seven months after release. We are doing that by trying to parallel tasks as much as possible and improving cod while developing a sequel."

just hang on here luthier, the issue is this;

this game is not working properly. Please don't think we should be grateful that you are continuing to work on the game and make it work as it should have from the release date?!

Look at the last 7-months of development as punishment for releasing a piece of unfinished software to a clamouring public who were/are willing to forgive a lot, but not now.

I think it is disgraceful to say that you will fix all the issues and let people play clod as they should have been able to on the release day...but only if you buy the sequel!

You see you have to buy the sequel to have all the features that were promised in the software that was purchased 7-months-ago, because if you don't buy the sequel, well you can carry on playing your half-finished product, continue bleating about it...but don't worry, luthier, you can tell us that all is well, because we can pay for a patch that fixes it and the patch will have a name called "battle for moscow"

so now, 1c can start a new trend where software companies can say they will release a game/sim and then when people have paid for it, these software companies can then say..."but if you want it to work without crashing, include the terrain fixes that should have been in the original, include weather effects that should have been in the original, include a campaign that should have been (working properly) in the original (although altered for russia as bob isn't important really!) and many other features.....wlell don't worry, you can now buy a patch to fix our faulty software as we no-longer provide fixes to make our software work correctly, for-free!"

i think it's pitiful that you now say if you want your software to work correctly, you'll have to pay for an update to fix it....but we'll call it a new add-on as saying it was a patch wouldn't look right

i agree with others, 1c has disappointed many customers with this news and i will certainly be waiting for reports on the new update before even touching it with a euro.

However don't worry, if bom doesn't work correctly..we can pay for a patch to patch it!

Mp
yes yes yes
  #170  
Old 12-23-2011, 10:17 PM
Chivas Chivas is offline
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I`m sorry if you do not understand what I`m saying. You seem to be with IL2 more than a few years like me, so you should know that an online war, even a simple generic slot based online coop mission is a whole different experience than dedicated dogfight servers, however organised they may be.
The part where you talk about waiting and someone running into you at the start is the exact thing people who don`t know online wars say. The only thing you had to have was organisation. Squads had it better all along. While coupled with your squad, you could setup online sorties one after another in a few moments. Every one of those sorties durated from 10-50 minutes and you could fly up to 12 of those in one evening. Half of the online campaign was played beside the game itself, on the website. And the decisions made on it made so much difference that if the leader players made a mistake (eg. choosing FW190 for low level escort), no effort could change the tide of war.

One plane, mission and pilot life. You either survived or died.
I agree that all the online gaming features may not be complete yet, and may be blocking third parties from developing wars with full stats, but I'm still not sure what exactly you need. Right now you can have two sides with all the diversity of missions you can think of that also includes AI involvement. As far as Dead is Dead, nobody is stopping you from not flying for whatever time you feel is right, or even blocking people from joining the server for that time period.

I'm still not sure what exactly a COOP server can provide that a regular server can't?
It looks to me that he developer is trying to build one server model with options to setup for whatever purpose you would like to employ. It still appears to be a work in progress like everything else. It took along time for modders to fully develop the online wars in IL-2 and will probably take some time in COD aswell.

Its still a mute point until the game engine is optimized enough for everyone to enjoy a session online. Maybe by that time online options will be more workable for online wars.
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