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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer 1C: Maddox Games.

View Poll Results: Steam poll
Yes I have and like using Steam 256 54.47%
Yes I have and dont like using Steam 67 14.26%
No I do not have Steam but will for CoD 52 11.06%
No I do not have Steam and will not for CoD 95 20.21%
Voters: 470. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 03-09-2011, 12:26 PM
leggit leggit is offline
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Originally Posted by Erkki View Post
Who is crying? Did you read my post?

3rd time on 3 different places I have said that I will not use it if I need to run Steam to start the game, offline or online mode. It always gets "misunderstood". I dont mind validating via Steam or having an option to play multiplayer with it.

you've made the same point 3 times but your not crying?...right.
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  #122  
Old 03-09-2011, 02:40 PM
Blackdog_kt Blackdog_kt is offline
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Originally Posted by leggit View Post
Oleg is protecting nearly 10 years work...i'm 100% behind his decision to use steam...like it or not gaming on the pc has moved on because of piracy.. If you don't like using steam well thats just tough.. the poll would indicate that most people are happy with the idea. stop crying.
It's not about piracy, we already have Solidshield DRM for that.
I would guess it's about cheap advertising (which is just fine) if the game was sold on Steam, but it's not.
It's not about multiplayer either, since Oleg Maddox said himself that it will be possible to use 3rd party server browsing tools like hypperlobby.

It's also been mentioned by a developer at some point during the last few months that they were working on integrating the multiplayer features "as per the request of the publisher". They just didn't say which publisher, some say this publisher is Ubi, some say it's 1C but in any case Maddox Games is neither of the two: it's a gaming studio that's working under 1C (a publisher) and publishing under Ubi in the west and 1C in the east.

So, the bottom line is that it's quite clear that Steam is not Oleg's decision but the publishers'.

Oh, and they also had to spent time to code this last minute integration of Steam, so arguments that "they went with Steam to save time on making their own server browser" are somewhat moot, especially when the rest of the netcode was something that the game was already capable of.

I don't have anything against people who like Steam or the platform itself but let's get over ourselves here for a bit, it's a publisher decision that's been forced on Oleg's team.

Best way to do things would be to have a Steam version for those who like it, sold through Steam with no additional DRM. The other versions would have the Solidshield DRM but no Steam integration. Everyone is happy, people are not boycotting the game, more sales, profit.

As it is now, both the pro-Steam and the against-Steam people are getting the short end of the stick: the "steamers" are forced to use a second DRM layer and the "non-steamers" have to also contend with two DRM layers and total lack of options in the whole matter.
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  #123  
Old 03-09-2011, 03:00 PM
Thee_oddball Thee_oddball is offline
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Originally Posted by TheGrunch View Post
So you don't want the game to have a server browser by default/want Oleg and team to waste time programming one when they could just use Steam instead?
just to play devils advocate i dont think the server browser issue is a valid argument FOR steam, oleg is in the gaming buisness and should know that having an ingame browser is statusquo...htyperlobby is a private one man volunteer effort as far as i know so what stops oleg from doing the same?
I dont remember the last time i got a game that did not have its own server browser..oleg and company have been working on this game for years and to not put in a server browser is illogical.
You mentioned UBI puling the plug on server's for some game that was only a year old...im sure the game developer is real happy about that... .that is one of the problems with relying on a third party...you have no control over them.
So do i think this will happen with steam? i very much doubt it but my point is still valid (the more moving parts the more togo wrong) If HL can be done on a free and volunteer basis there is no reason oleg can not do the same and this apply's to updates aswell
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  #124  
Old 03-09-2011, 03:06 PM
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TheGrunch TheGrunch is offline
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Originally Posted by Thee_oddball View Post
If HL can be done on a free and volunteer basis there is no reason oleg can not do the same and this apply's to updates aswell
This is true, but from a developer's point of view, why bother? If you know Steam can do it, and better than you can, what need is there to waste time on it? I bet using Steam has been the plan all along.
Blackdog, I would ask what evidence you have that the decision to use Steam is a *recent* one? Just because we didn't know about it until recently, and indeed just because the work wasn't done until recently doesn't mean the decision wasn't made. After all, Steam integration is not likely to be particularly difficult, Hyperlobby acted as a server browser without any intervention code-wise from Maddox Games at all in the case of Il-2.

Last edited by TheGrunch; 03-09-2011 at 03:09 PM.
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  #125  
Old 03-09-2011, 04:56 PM
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ElAurens ElAurens is offline
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I have been doing homework on Steam since this mess started.

Been asking folks I know personally that are involved in I.T. gaming, computer repair, and related businesses.

It's the only way to find clear, calm, and reasoned answers to my questions and concerns, as certainly none of the fan boys on either side that are constantly posting on the three main forums are capable of adult discussion.

So far I am pretty much hearing the same thing from all of them.

1. Never install Steam on a computer that is used for financial information work/storage that is not encrypted. QuickBooks came up a lot in this area.

2. Do not install Steam on any computer that you use to store any important personal information of any kind. Financial records, business transaction records, credit card transaction records, etc... or anything that is of deep personal value to you.

3. As a gaming resource it isn't a bad thing in and of itself. But, like any open port to the greater net, it can be used in a nefarious manner.

4. It is not a huge resouce hog, but it does "phone home" and there is additional network traffic because of it.

5. Never make direct credit card purchases for games on Steam. Buy Steam points at a brick and mortar store and use those online.

6. Be careful and it is not going to bite you.


OK.

That's where I'm at for now.
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  #126  
Old 03-09-2011, 05:00 PM
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TheGrunch TheGrunch is offline
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Originally Posted by ElAurens View Post
6. Be careful and it is not going to bite you.
That is pretty much it in a nutshell, but then you could say that about any piece of software that accesses the internet. If you login once, then enable offline mode on a permanent basis and block it in your firewall - if you're that kind of paranoid do remember to do that, I've heard that it can phone home even when it's technically in offline mode if there's still an internet connection, indeed I saw it do so at least in older versions - it cannot possibly compromise your personal information or computer security after that.

Last edited by TheGrunch; 03-09-2011 at 05:04 PM.
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  #127  
Old 03-09-2011, 05:37 PM
Feuerfalke Feuerfalke is offline
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Quote:
Been asking folks I know personally that are involved in I.T. gaming, computer repair, and related businesses.
That's the cross-section of our forum

Quote:
1. Never install Steam on a computer that is used for financial information work/storage that is not encrypted. QuickBooks came up a lot in this area.

2. Do not install Steam on any computer that you use to store any important personal information of any kind. Financial records, business transaction records, credit card transaction records, etc... or anything that is of deep personal value to you.
You should never put any of these things on a PC connected to the internet. At least not without a decent firewall.

Quote:
3. As a gaming resource it isn't a bad thing in and of itself. But, like any open port to the greater net, it can be used in a nefarious manner.
Any open port can. Closed ports as well, if they are not protected.

Quote:
It is not a huge resouce hog, but it does "phone home" and there is additional network traffic because of it.
From a reasonable friend in the IT-branche I'd expected a number instead of an opinion. Let me give you one: In "standby" that 4 Bit/s down, intermittently > 1 Bit/s up. Assuming you a running a 16k-Modem via phone-line, that's what? >0,1% of your bandwidth?

Quote:
5. Never make direct credit card purchases for games on Steam. Buy Steam points at a brick and mortar store and use those online.
Why not? Just keep changing your password and don't fall for phishing-mails. Problem solved. Or you want 100% safety? Good luck.

Quote:
6. Be careful and it is not going to bite you.
Yeah. The same is true for my toaster.
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  #128  
Old 03-09-2011, 05:40 PM
JG27+Freid JG27+Freid is offline
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Ubi tried their own DRM and STEAM didn't like it so they refused to sell UBISOFT games which pretty much screwed them so they had to let STEAM sell them and run them. Evidently STEAM is the microsoft/google of PC gaming sales. They use every tactic to gain and keep a stranglehold on the market. They like google are also known to be a data mining company extroidinaire.

I am not interested in a third party dictateing to control what i choose to have installed on my PC and how i choose to use a product I paid for. I am not new to this.

I still have my commodore 64. My first flight simulator was RedBaron and it was 8 floppy disc's. Thats right i am not a kid. I have been flying flight simulators for nearly 20 years. I find this digital download and 3rd party software with a permanent internet connection an infrignment on my freedoms and rights.

This will eliminate and water down the present IL2 community and replace it with an Arcade group dominated and controlled by a corporation only interested in profit and control.

Bye Oleg and enjoy kids !
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  #129  
Old 03-09-2011, 05:49 PM
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TheGrunch TheGrunch is offline
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Originally Posted by JG27+Freid View Post
This will eliminate and water down the present IL2 community and replace it with an Arcade group dominated and controlled by a corporation only interested in profit and control.
By God, you're right! I also heard that you shouldn't trust foreigners. Thanks for the good info!
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  #130  
Old 03-09-2011, 05:49 PM
Luftrofl Luftrofl is offline
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Originally Posted by JG27+Freid View Post
Ubi tried their own DRM and STEAM didn't like it so they refused to sell UBISOFT games which pretty much screwed them so they had to let STEAM sell them and run them. Evidently STEAM is the microsoft/google of PC gaming sales. They use every tactic to gain and keep a stranglehold on the market. They like google are also known to be a data mining company extroidinaire.

I am not interested in a third party dictateing to control what i choose to have installed on my PC and how i choose to use a product I paid for. I am not new to this.

I still have my commodore 64. My first flight simulator was RedBaron and it was 8 floppy disc's. Thats right i am not a kid. I have been flying flight simulators for nearly 20 years. I find this digital download and 3rd party software with a permanent internet connection an infrignment on my freedoms and rights.

This will eliminate and water down the present IL2 community and replace it with an Arcade group dominated and controlled by a corporation only interested in profit and control.

Bye Oleg and enjoy kids !
Do a little more research because you obviously have no clue what went down between Ubi and Steam regarding the DRM.
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