1C Home   |   Register   |   Today Posts   |   Members   |   UserCP   |   Calendar   |   Search   |   FAQ

Go Back   Official 1C Company forum > 1C Publishing > IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover > Pilot's Lounge

Pilot's Lounge Members meetup

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 02-27-2013, 10:17 AM
Art-J Art-J is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 45
Default

Zapa, I don't quite get Your leaning-comparison from post #11. It doesn't matter whether one almost puts his nose in the monitor, or looks at it from the opposite side of the room - the relative size of 109 and gunsight reticle remains the same - you lean closer, the 109 gets twice bigger, but so does the reticle, just like the whole displayed image. Leaning to 2D image on the screen cannot be compared directly to leaning in real cockpit, unless the real pilot suddenly decides to look at his cockpit or through his gunsight using a pair of binoculars .

But then again, You seem to note just that in the last part of Your post... so now I have no idea what You're up to .

P.S. - What do You mean by "game and PC setup correctly"? Is it the one where objects in the cockpit (gunsight, gauges etc.) are displayed in "real" size? If that is the case, then I'm afraid only a minority of players (the ones with single enormous screens, TV projectors or triple screen hardware) are interested in dealing with problems discussed above!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-27-2013, 10:44 AM
zapatista's Avatar
zapatista zapatista is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlipBall View Post
zapatista, I have changed my thinking on this and agree that objects/especially ground in the distance are rendered too small in the game...and speed of aircraft while looking to ones side view/low alt. is way to slow.
you'r halfway there, at least you noticed there IS a problem with ingame planes/ground-objects not being displayed in their correct sizes for many CoD users

and yes, your observations relate to the exact same issue i am trying to raise
__________________
President Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953: Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone, it is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children

Last edited by zapatista; 02-27-2013 at 01:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-27-2013, 11:02 AM
zapatista's Avatar
zapatista zapatista is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,172
Default

hiya Art,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art-J View Post
Zapa, I don't quite get Your leaning-comparison from post #11. It doesn't matter whether one almost puts his nose in the monitor, or looks at it from the opposite side of the room - the relative size of 109 and gunsight reticle remains the same - you lean closer, the 109 gets twice bigger, but so does the reticle, just like the whole displayed image.
i tried to deliberately not give that example with the distant plane seen through the gunsight retticle (unless i miss typed in one of my examples), and was giving the example for a plane seen from the virtual cockpit in general. eg if you pause the game and then lean closer to the screen the distant plane object will be much easier to see (which would not be the case in a real aircraft cockpit). i only stated the example with the gunsight included it to avoid somebody raising that exact issue out of context later, so lets maybe leave it aside.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Art-J View Post
- What do You mean by "game and PC setup correctly"? Is it the one where objects in the cockpit (gunsight, gauges etc.) are displayed in "real" size?
you could use that as an example, but it tried to avoid using an in cockpit object for the comparison to real life since it is complicated by other issues to. but you are right about the concept it also applies there but is maybe less important and a bit more tricky. its easier and more obvious to deal with trying to display the correct size of a distant aircraft on your pc monitor (with or without looking through the reticle of the gunsight), and i referred to looking at it through the gunsight reticle because that provides an indication that the reticle function works correctly ingame (which it didnt in il2-1946).

its just that for most CoD pc players both the gunsight reticle size and distant aircraft sizes are "wrong", but proportionately both are distorted in the same way so their relative relationship looks right (eg a 10m wide 109 at 100meters is correctly displayed in the reticle as being 10 cm wide, as measure by counting reticle markings), its just that on your screen it wont be 10 cm wide when you measure it after pausing the game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art-J View Post
If that is the case, then I'm afraid only a minority of players (the ones with single enormous screens, TV projectors or triple screen hardware) are interested in dealing with problems discussed above!
yes that is the issue, but for people with giant screens that 109 at 100 meters might be displayed to large on such a huge display, having a huge display might now make things to big

so how can you correctly configure your personal CoD setup (be this a normal pc monitor in front of you, a multi monitor setup, or a very large single screen ) so these ingame objects are displayed in their correct sizes (1:1 as would be seen with the human eye in a similar RL viewing condition) ? this is possible in principle in CoD, just not many do it or know how to do it. this is not just important for seeing objects/aircraft correctly, but if objects are displayed the wrong sizes it also distorts your sense of speed and makes it harder to aim etc..
__________________
President Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953: Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone, it is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children

Last edited by zapatista; 02-27-2013 at 11:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-27-2013, 11:59 AM
raaaid raaaid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,329
Default

i already answered your question and this is an old topic if you ignore it let it be info for the rest


30º fov implies you set your monitor distance so the vertical of the screen has an angular size of 30º implies objects appear at real size

you neither paid attention how winscape solved this issue of varying distance to screen with head trackers to show a realistic size rendition
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-27-2013, 01:24 PM
zapatista's Avatar
zapatista zapatista is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,172
Default

raid,
if you havnt articulated your comments coherently, others here cant decipher what you might have intended to say. no rudeness intended on my part, i am trying to avoid adding in more levels of unnecessary confusion.

your original post question in this thread seems to have been answered, and others now are now diverging on another tangent

Quote:
Originally Posted by raaaid View Post
..... let it be info for the rest
yes
__________________
President Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953: Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone, it is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children

Last edited by zapatista; 02-28-2013 at 11:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-30-2013, 01:06 AM
zapatista's Avatar
zapatista zapatista is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,172
Default

with all the self proclaimed "full real" affectionado's trawling aviation forums, bit surprising still no real answers are provided

seems the cigar will stay in the box for now
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cigar-humidor.jpg (28.0 KB, 3 views)
__________________
President Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953: Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone, it is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children

Last edited by zapatista; 03-30-2013 at 01:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-30-2013, 06:08 AM
ZaltysZ's Avatar
ZaltysZ ZaltysZ is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Lithuania
Posts: 426
Default

F=2*atan(w/d/2)

w - screen width;
d - distance from viewer to screen;
F - in game FOV for 1:1 scale;

Setting FOV according to this, you will get real life sized objects on the screen, however that FOV will be too narrow for adequate SA in most use cases (i.e. using average display at normal distance).
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-30-2013, 02:06 PM
zapatista's Avatar
zapatista zapatista is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaltysZ View Post
F=2*atan(w/d/2)

w - screen width;
d - distance from viewer to screen;
F - in game FOV for 1:1 scale;

Setting FOV according to this, you will get real life sized objects on the screen, however that FOV will be too narrow for adequate SA in most use cases (i.e. using average display at normal distance).
exatemoundo !

give the man some el primo cubanos

to translate it into plain english:
- if you use a FoV that is to wide for your display, all ingame objects will shrink in size compared to what they should look like in real life (but you gain extra peripheral vision). conversely, using a to-narrow FoV for your monitor size will artificially magnify all ingame objects (and simultaneously narrow your peripheral vision).
- using the correct FoV will allow all ingame objects to be correctly displayed in size, but your ingame peripheral vision will only be as good/wide as your monitor is wide (if you then want better SA, get a larger monitor or consider using multiple monitors). if the game is coded/programmed/designed correctly you should now be able to spot all distant aircraft (or ground objects like trucks/tanks) from exactly the same distances as you will be able to see/spot them in real life. you can then briefly still snap to a narrow view for more specific aiming, or briefly use a wider FoV during a dogfight to improve your SA (but it will distort your sense of distance and speed).

if you want to experience the virtual ingame CoD world "correctly", and see all in-game objects in their correct sizes (which will affect your sensation of speed and perception of altitude as well etc), you MUST be using this "correct FoV" setting most of the time while flying around if you then still cant spot that distant aircraft at 1000 or 1500 m (which you would be able to see/spot in a similar real life situation) then there is an error in the game where these distant LoD models in CoD dont stand out enough (or contain errors, like some of the old spitfire lod models in the original il2 series which had missing wings etc)

regarding viewing distances, be aware that most pc gamers will sit with their eyes/head at roughly an arms length from the monitor on their desk (in comparison, for users of large displays like projectors and large lcd tv, on average they will sit at a distance of 2x the height of the screen ). to get the needed variables to calculate your "correct FoV", measure the approx distance from your eye's to the monitor (used during game play), and then measure how wide the monitor display area is, then use the appropriate formulae to calculate the exact FoV figure it represents, and then simply set the il2 game to that wide setting.

for those who have problems spotting/seeing/tracking nearby or distant aircraft (or ground targets), this should be a significant help. it will also reduce the problem of the disappearing LoD models for most (unless the game contains LoD model design errors)

note: if you use a trackir, it is pretty amazing to see how the gunsights in CoD are correctly modeled to allow 3DoF and the gunsight reticle functions correctly as it would in a real cockpit with you leaning forward/back
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 10475332-group-of-cuban-cigar.jpg (158.7 KB, 1 views)
__________________
President Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953: Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone, it is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children

Last edited by zapatista; 04-07-2013 at 03:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-07-2013, 03:38 AM
zapatista's Avatar
zapatista zapatista is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlipBall View Post
zapatista, I have changed my thinking on this and agree that objects/especially ground in the distance are rendered too small in the game...and speed of aircraft while looking to ones side view/low alt. is way to slow.
if you set your FoV correctly, as just detailed in the previous 2 posts, you WILL see all ingame objects (like distant planes and trucks/tanks) in their correct sizes (and so should be as easy/difficult to spot as they are in real life)

similarly, with your FoV set correctly your sense of speed when flying low to the ground will now be correct
__________________
President Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953: Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone, it is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-07-2013, 11:47 AM
SlipBall's Avatar
SlipBall SlipBall is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: down Island, NY
Posts: 2,718
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapatista View Post
if you set your FoV correctly, as just detailed in the previous 2 posts, you WILL see all ingame objects (like distant planes and trucks/tanks) in their correct sizes (and so should be as easy/difficult to spot as they are in real life)

similarly, with your FoV set correctly your sense of speed when flying low to the ground will now be correct

So Zap there is 30/70/90 degrees, which is correct
__________________



GigaByteBoard...64bit...FX 4300 3.8, G. Skill sniper 1866 32GB, EVGA GTX 660 ti 3gb, Raptor 64mb cache, Planar 120Hz 2ms, CH controls, Tir5
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:12 PM.

Based on a design by: Miner Skinz.com

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2007 1C Company. All rights reserved.