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Old 03-25-2011, 05:37 PM
Flying Pencil Flying Pencil is offline
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Question Simple solution to deal with Epilepsy attack (PSE)?

Luthiar,

It is good 1C is considerate to those who surfer from PSE (Photosensitive epilepsy), but something does not seem correct.

You mentioned "tests", can you please describe what kind of tests?
Is it possible the test created artificial conditions to promote PSE attacks?

I myself have play air combat sims for 28 years as well as a few space combat sims, and I know others who have done the same, and this is the first time I ever heard of anyone being impacted by PSE in an air combat game. Yes, I have heard of people with PSE reaction to Defender, Doom, Unreal, but those are not flight sims.


PSE triggers are very specific:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_epilepsy
Quote:
The visual trigger for a seizure is generally cyclic, forming a regular pattern in time or space. Flashing lights or rapidly changing or alternating images (as in clubs, around emergency vehicles, in action movies or television programs, etc.) are an example of patterns in time that can trigger seizures, and these are the most common triggers. Static spatial patterns such as stripes and squares may trigger seizures as well, even if they do not move. In some cases, the trigger must be both spatially and temporally cyclic, such as a certain moving pattern of bars.
As a pilot myself, their is awareness made about PSE, but I have never experienced a test for it as part of my medical examination.

That said, the biggest issue for pilots is for single engine propeller aircraft, during landing into the sun the RPM of the propeller is about 700~1200 RPM will cause discomfort.
I have to emphasis during landing, becuase in normal cruise fight the propeller is 2000~2600 RPM presents no issue at all during flight into the sun.

It is important to note the real world experience is different then how a computer renders the virtual world, and that be the key.


Luthiar post suggest it was a simple test and a very rushed fix rather then a careful systematic examination of the root cause and adjustments. Simply changing the propeller motion could be all that is needed (in a game I play regularly play the prop blade becomes translucent, hardly blocks any light).
While no time to do this now, I hope in the future a better solution can be found.

Regards.

Last edited by Flying Pencil; 03-25-2011 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 03-25-2011, 05:55 PM
Vevster Vevster is offline
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John explains: “The original approach to broadcasting all those years ago was that prevention is better than cure. It was right for broadcasting and it’s also right for video games. We’re not asking developers to do anything that’s not already tried and tested. The technology has been around for a very long time. There are no expensive, difficult or cutting-edge things to be done – it’s boringly easy.”

The technology John is referring to is that currently used to screen television programmes before they are broadcast. One such system is the Harding Flash and Pattern Analyser (FPA) – devised by Professor Graham Harding, the world expert on PSE. Systems like Harding’s FPA are designed to check television footage. It flags up particular colours or patterns that are known to trigger seizures in people with PSE. These sections may then be removed before the programme is televised. Alternatively, a warning will be added, warning people who are photosensitive not to watch the following clip.



Contact him

http://www.epilepsy.org.uk/campaigns...ng/video-games
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Old 03-26-2011, 05:50 AM
SQB SQB is offline
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I knew a kid who had an epileptic fit after turning on his nintendo ds in a darkened room. Just the screen coming on triggered it.

It seems rather silly that this isnt made optional, or just include a warning with the game.
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:35 PM
Flying Pencil Flying Pencil is offline
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To continue Vevster's post, another quote:

Quote:
Pre-screening video games should work in a similar way. Once problematic images, patterns or colours have been identified, they can be removed – resulting in a safer gaming experience. Gaye has some concerns that gameplaying purists may feel short-changed if sections of a game are removed before its release. She insists, however, that the gaming experience will not suffer.

“If games are pre-screened, the odd problematic sequence can be taken out,” she explains, “but I don’t want the games spoiled. We’re talking about the odd second or two here and there. No one will find the game any less fun or exciting.”
The root cause of PSE is regular flashing in certain frequencies and intensity. Granted I do not have extensive knowledges on PSE, but everything I read so far points to rather specific triggers.
Otherwise every game made would cause mass PSE attacks.


It is a difficult position to get the game out and have to make a performance degrading patch, but some things cannot be helped.
BUT I hope once CoD is released 1C can do a more detailed analysis and change the effects instead of applying crude patch.
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Old 03-28-2011, 03:08 PM
Kianoni Kianoni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Pencil View Post
To continue Vevster's post, another quote:



The root cause of PSE is regular flashing in certain frequencies and intensity. Granted I do not have extensive knowledges on PSE, but everything I read so far points to rather specific triggers.
Otherwise every game made would cause mass PSE attacks.


It is a difficult position to get the game out and have to make a performance degrading patch, but some things cannot be helped.
BUT I hope once CoD is released 1C can do a more detailed analysis and change the effects instead of applying crude patch.
games do not cause mass PSE attacks because PSE is so rare. screening for PSE using the mentioned analyzer is still not required by any law but Yubisoft tries to be "responsible" and forces all titles that they release to pass this test.
so most of the games out there still may trigger PSE (and fail the harding test) and yet I wonder where are these "mass PSE attacks"
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Old 03-28-2011, 04:20 PM
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Voyager Voyager is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Pencil View Post
To continue Vevster's post, another quote:



The root cause of PSE is regular flashing in certain frequencies and intensity. Granted I do not have extensive knowledges on PSE, but everything I read so far points to rather specific triggers.
Otherwise every game made would cause mass PSE attacks.


It is a difficult position to get the game out and have to make a performance degrading patch, but some things cannot be helped.
BUT I hope once CoD is released 1C can do a more detailed analysis and change the effects instead of applying crude patch.
Machine guns firing tracers
Propeller when turned into the sun
rolling scissors on a bright clear day
The effects of night bombing at low level
Fuel dumps going up

WWII flight sims are about things exploding at 400 mph. At certain geometries you can have things whip past so fast that they're only in view for one frame. This is a known problem with flight sims, but because the flightsim market is so small, and the epileptic population is so small, they rarely interact.
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Old 03-28-2011, 05:05 PM
Flying Pencil Flying Pencil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Machine guns firing tracers
Propeller when turned into the sun
rolling scissors on a bright clear day
The effects of night bombing at low level
Fuel dumps going up

WWII flight sims are about things exploding at 400 mph. At certain geometries you can have things whip past so fast that they're only in view for one frame. This is a known problem with flight sims, but because the flightsim market is so small, and the epileptic population is so small, they rarely interact.
A single flash does not cause PSE (otherwise flash photo would be banned)
Small flashing lights do not cause PSE (otherwise you would never see a blinking clock)

The only item that has by far the greatest chance for PSE, and that is the propeller.

So, yes, what was this test that seemed to cause so many to have PSE??
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Old 03-28-2011, 05:38 PM
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Richie Richie is offline
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Everyone in here should go have an EEG. I bet there's quite a few in here where the tech. would say "All we're getting is a flat line."

Last edited by Richie; 03-28-2011 at 05:41 PM.
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