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  #21  
Old 03-29-2011, 02:31 PM
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Eklund89 Eklund89 is offline
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I would like a option in the distant future where you can check the box "show realistic prop visuals (may cause PSE and headache)"
Then if you get a headache or are unconfortable with the props you can just easily turn it off. The more realism the better for me.

But as always. Fix the critical stuff first and then add the goodies.
Smoothe framerates and playability, compability is first priority.
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Last edited by Eklund89; 03-29-2011 at 03:41 PM.
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  #22  
Old 03-29-2011, 03:08 PM
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Richie Richie is offline
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From Luthier yesterday....





Posts: 178
Default Quick epilepsy update
Hello everyone,

Once again I want to point out that a lot of your earlier anger was misplaced. Actually, our colleagues at Ubisoft are extremely interested in making this game a success, they care about our opinion and yours, and everyone we work with there is understanding and cordial and more than willing to listen and change their mind.

Having said that, I'm glad to announce that the debacle has been resolved.

We will be making the filter optional, however turned on by default. And we will be adding a large epilepsy warning to our splash screen. I am almost certain that this update will hit the steam servers on March 30th and thus seamlessly make it onto everyone's machines when the game is installed on the 31st.

The March 30th update will also address some of the issues reported with the Russian version, but we'll provide more details with the patch notes once we know for sure what it'll contain. Obviously, we need to test the heck out of all the changes to make sure we don't introduce any new bugs while fixing the old ones (the team's favorite past time lately as it seems).

So there! Do a happy dance, I know I did.
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  #23  
Old 03-29-2011, 03:19 PM
Space Communist Space Communist is offline
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The Filter acts on the entire video output not individual effects, that's part of why it causes such a framerate hit. It is ridiculous to imagine that they would make the filter optional and then start disabling effects, since that would completely defeat the purpose of making the filter optional in the first place.

It would be a much more efficient use of their time to simply leave the filter as is, and assume everyone without epilepsy will simply disable it(once it is optional.) They can then completely forget about epilepsy after that and concentrate on other game improvements. If Ubi has agreed that this is sufficient to avoid litigation then I am certain this will be the last we hear of it.

Of course I realize that this is great for everybody except the few players who actually have epilepsy, but well at least they can still play the game. I am sure there will be many further optimizations that make better even with the filter on.

Let me repeat/tldr: The idea that they would spend time and money making their game less visually impressive in order to solve a problem that has already been solved is patently ridiculous.
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  #24  
Old 03-29-2011, 05:15 PM
Triggaaar Triggaaar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Communist View Post
The Filter acts on the entire video output not individual effects, that's part of why it causes such a framerate hit. It is ridiculous to imagine that they would make the filter optional and then start disabling effects, since that would completely defeat the purpose of making the filter optional in the first place.
Not really, it depends what they agreed with Ubisoft. If they agreed that they would continue fixing the issue, but have a filter in the mean time that could be switched off (because it was harming sales), it is possible that Ubisoft would agree on the condition that the issue would be fixed in x months. Hopefully that's not the case, and you are correct.

Quote:
It would be a much more efficient use of their time to simply leave the filter as is, and assume everyone without epilepsy will simply disable it(once it is optional.) They can then completely forget about epilepsy after that and concentrate on other game improvements. If Ubi has agreed that this is sufficient to avoid litigation then I am certain this will be the last we hear of it.
Indeed, hopefully Ubisoft is happy with that solution, and that's the end of the matter.
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  #25  
Old 03-29-2011, 05:55 PM
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Wow.. you just confused me even more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adonys View Post
This is for all of us to understand better what's this about, and what's the current situations of it. I gave up having to explain it in countless threads across multiple forums.


Guys, you need the facts, first before anything, and the facts at this moment are the following:

- MG (Maddox Games) started to address epilepsy issues in IL2 at UBI's request
- they've put out of the game (previously announced as for good, as in forever) some of them (there's no list of this, just Luthier's statement, but it included the cockpit view propeller's arc) - in both IL2 CoD and BoB
- at the point MG understood there's no time to address them all before release, they've stopped addressing the effects individually and started to put up the full screen filter - in both IL2 CoD and BoB

- after we've found out, and due to rampage on the forums, Luthier said 1C version BoB will accept an optional filter (or even removing it for good) and stop individually addressing effects to meet epilepsy requirements, but the UBI version CoD will have the filter permanent (or at least until all effects will be addressed individually, making the filter obsolete)
- Luthier also said that it might re-add/un-cripple the list of individual effects already modified to meet the epilepsy requirement in the 1C's BoB version before turning to the filter solution (yet, it might not equals for sure)
- after more ranting UBI sais it will make the filter optional

BUT

- making the filter optional doesn't mean they won't further continue to address (read cripple) effects individually in order to meet epilepsy requirements
- and even if they stop further individually addressing the effects, it also doesn't mean they will re-add/un-cripple the already modified effects crippled to meet the epilepsy requirements


We need an official clarification of these two problems from UBI/Luthier in order to consider the CoD at par with BoB

Of course, all of the above assuming UBI is not just lying to us in order to not drop the launch sales. We can only have faith in their word, and check it in time, by comparing the visuals from the two different editions (Cod vs BoB)..
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  #26  
Old 03-29-2011, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adonys View Post
Oh god, nobody seems to really understand.. Ok, let's do it the hard way:

We have this awesome propeller blade arc visible from inside the cockpit, right?

As we've seen in WW2 footage, the propeller view is like a translucid (like in transparent, but not invisible) circle seen all the time while not at very low rpm, with some blurred propeller blades rotating at slower speeds inside/over the translucid arc, sometime even counter-rotating (an optical illusion seen at rpms which would have the propeller move just a little less than full 360 degrees during a single frame, hence the illusion of counter-rotating). Everyone with me until now?!

Now, UBI comes and says: we can't have these blurred propeller blades rotating, or even counter-rotating, inside the propeller's translucid arc, it will cause headache and might trigger epilepsy, remove it.

MG removed them from the game. Removed the blurred slowly rotating/counter-rorating propeller blades for good (like in removing them from the game, and deleting the resources needed to create them), and just kept only the translucid arc.

After 100 x above, they've decided is counterproductive to fix all the individual requests, and added an epilepsy filter.

Do you have the slightest idea what that (post-processing) filter is? it is NOT like a list of effects which are allowed when it is on, and not rendered when it is off. it is NOT a list of effectes rendered like this when it is on, and like that when it is off.

The filter just grabs the image which should go to the screen, and analysis it pixel by pixel with the previously image sent to the screen. if the difference between the luminosity of two pixels is too big, it will tone down it in the new image is preparing to send to the screen.

Do you understand now what "epilepsy filter removal means"? it means only it will stop analyse and modify the rendered image, and send it as it is to the screen.

while being a good thing (as it will put back into the game the extra FPS removed by this filter, and preserve a more contrasting look of the game), it won't put the already crippled effects back in, as the already removed inside cockpit slowly rotating/counter-rotating blurred propeller's blades. That won't put back ANY of the individual already removed/toned down/crippled effects.

Even more, it won't mean UBI might not request to have other/more effects removed/crippled/toned down (in order to limit the worst of them if the epilepsy filter is taken off)..

Do you understand now?

NO
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  #27  
Old 03-29-2011, 07:21 PM
Blackdog_kt Blackdog_kt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Communist View Post
The Filter acts on the entire video output not individual effects, that's part of why it causes such a framerate hit. It is ridiculous to imagine that they would make the filter optional and then start disabling effects, since that would completely defeat the purpose of making the filter optional in the first place.

It would be a much more efficient use of their time to simply leave the filter as is, and assume everyone without epilepsy will simply disable it(once it is optional.) They can then completely forget about epilepsy after that and concentrate on other game improvements. If Ubi has agreed that this is sufficient to avoid litigation then I am certain this will be the last we hear of it.

Of course I realize that this is great for everybody except the few players who actually have epilepsy, but well at least they can still play the game. I am sure there will be many further optimizations that make better even with the filter on.

Let me repeat/tldr: The idea that they would spend time and money making their game less visually impressive in order to solve a problem that has already been solved is patently ridiculous.
That's my understanding as well, it doesn't make sense to remove effects when the filter is already in place.

What the OP said is indeed true, but it's what Luthier said in the beginning before the situation was resolved. Since the requirements have changed, it's only reasonable to assume that they will do it in the way that costs them the least amount of money and time: effects for everyone, filter on or off depending on user choice and a warning screen just to avoid lawsuits.
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  #28  
Old 03-29-2011, 08:24 PM
sod16 sod16 is offline
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@adonys,

You are overthinking this situation. Who in there right mind would spend time easing in patches one by one to make there game uglier when there is already a PRE SET FILTER in the game with a SPLASH warning screen.

Those "100" or so graphically reduced objects can EASILY be reverted by going back too the old save files. Infact, they may have reverted them once they decided to put the filter in.

Honestly, they are NOT going to work on making the game epi friendly when they already have a pre set filter. Might I remind you, it is not law nor do any other companies do it.

Also, who cares about it anyway? Its gone and we will get our effects back in weeks to come if they really are gone.
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  #29  
Old 03-29-2011, 08:57 PM
kalimba
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if I may try an explanation of my own....
In a previous message,when he decided to tell us about the filter issues, Luthier said that they indeed began changing some effects in the code trying to make them less prone to induce epileptic seizures.
If I remember correctly, he mentioned the prop effects has being changed forever and few others also....It was a bigger job than they taught and then decided that they would put a overall filter...What we could conclude is even if we turn the filter off, some initial and original effects are gone and COD is not 100 per cent what we were supposed to get...Is it true for the Russian version also ?
Luthier only could tell us at this point..

salute!
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  #30  
Old 03-29-2011, 09:18 PM
lbuchele lbuchele is offline
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If the have a Epilepsy Warning in the splash screen there is no need to dumb down anything I guess.
Because we play by our own risk.I'm sure that Ubi lawyers already assure them about that, that´s the reason they decided to remove this Epi filter.
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