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IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey Famous title comes to consoles.

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  #121  
Old 08-06-2009, 07:34 AM
H Lecter H Lecter is offline
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Originally Posted by Doktorwzzerd View Post
totally true, but a little bend to the rules of reality here might make the game more intuitively playable without sacrificing overmuch in realism. IMHO.
True, as we are missing the g-forces of a real aircraft we need to compensate for that by having some stick feedback. So I'm not against having unrealistic force feedback

But I'd really be interested how the real deal is. How do you recognize you are going to stall?
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  #122  
Old 08-06-2009, 08:04 AM
loopdreams loopdreams is offline
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There are a number of things that should tip you off and they all combine to mean that after a short wile you usually 'just know' because it all feels wrong. This is from a gliding site:

Quote:
THE SIX SIGNS OF AN IMPENDING STALL

We've all heard about the six signs of an impending stall that have been drilled into us by some flight instructors. They are extremely important. In case you have forgotten them they are:

1. Excessive back stick pressure

2. Nose high attitude

3. Low airspeed

4. Quietness

5. Mushy controls

6. Shudder or buffetting



I do not believe each of these signs is of equal importance. Futhermore, some of these signs are causes while others are results. To truely identify what causes a stall (and therefore how to avoid one) we must separate the cause signs from the results signs.

The number 1 sign, "Excessive back stick pressure", is a cause sign but is very hard to get across to a student. What is excessive? 1 pound, 2 pounds, 10 pounds? What about the trim on the plane? If it is trimmed wrong could that cause excessive back stick pressure without being close to a stall? In other words excessive back stick pressure could exist and one is not close or getting close to a stall. Therefore, I pretty much discount this cause when I am teaching stall awareness/avoidance. It can confuse the student more than help.

The number 2 sign, "Nose high attitude" is a cause of stalls and will always be there when a sailplane stalls. It is unmistakable and it is easy to teach. Couple the teaching of this sign with the hazards of skidding the sailplane and, if followed, a student will never stall a sailplane. This sign is by far the most important in teaching stall awareness/avoidance. If students learn to keep the nose below the horizon they are well on their way to never inadvertently stalling.

The number 3 sign, "low airspeed", goes hand in hand with "Nose high attitude" and is a good indicator for students. However, it is really a result of " nose high attitude". With students it is the main result sign that will help a student avoid stalls. That is, if a student keeps his airspeed well above the published stall speed he will not and, as a matter of fact, can not stall the sailplane. The old adage that a plane can stall at any attitude at any airspeed is, in the real world, simply not correct (unless the student jerks back on the stick as fast and as hard as he can and students just don't do that).

The number 4 sign, "Quietness" is another result sign and is not a cause of stalls. Different sailplanes have different levels of noise. I certainly do not want students to first recognize the beginning of a stall by quietness. It is much too late at this stage.



The number 5 sign, "Mushy Controls", is another result sign of impending stalls. Similar to "Quietness" it is a sign I never want my students to get to. If they pay attention to "nose high attitude" and "airspeed" this number 5 will not happen. Remember, we teach stall awareness/avoidance.

The number 6 sign, "shutter or buffeting", is also a result sign not a cause sign. Furthermore, this sign occurs in other situations. For instance, upon release from the tow plane I have had students get hit by the prop wash of the towplane and push forward on the stick thinking they are stalling. NOT!! On the other hand some sailplane just stall without a hint of a shutter or buffet. So number six sign is not one of the more important one.

In summary, two signs stand head and shoulders above the rest to be used for stall awareness/avoidance. They are:

NOSE HIGH ATTITUDE (a cause)

&

LOW AIRSPEED (a result)



There is however, one other point that needs to be reemphasized. SKIDDING TURNS drastically increase the stall speed of a sailplane. The more you skid a turn the LESS nose high attitude it takes to stall and this stall will occur at a higher airspeed.



Fly Safely
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  #123  
Old 08-06-2009, 08:10 AM
H Lecter H Lecter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopdreams View Post
There are a number of things that should tip you off and they all combine to mean that after a short wile you usually 'just know' because it all feels wrong. This is from a gliding site:
Awesome! Thanks a million for the explanation!
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  #124  
Old 08-06-2009, 01:44 PM
rocketassistedllama rocketassistedllama is offline
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Ooooo...I've waited my whole life for this game, it seems. Great music too...and I'm personally impressed with the smoke, and how it lingers [even if the finished version does'nt have a full next-gen sheen to it...who cares?]
About time someone out there stopped treating console owners as if they're stupid, and can't handle a sim. Played the demo briefly [only on arcade]...but I know what's coming;0)
A full dynamic damage system by the sound of it would be my only real request [reinforcing the reality that every bullet counts]...but I'm just super impressed with how cannon holes disrupt airflow over the wing, and that you can shoot out wing spars:0) Epic, if not quite Red Faction; Guerilla.
What else...? I've heard rumors that you can't take off again, after you land, say; in a field. Is that true?? Pilot Wings so far has been the game that most nailed it on consoles [the flight experiance]...point being; 'landing in strange places [and taking off again]'; was a game in it's own right.
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  #125  
Old 08-06-2009, 02:13 PM
Anton Yudintsev Anton Yudintsev is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketassistedllama View Post
What else...? I've heard rumors that you can't take off again, after you land, say; in a field. Is that true??
Of course, not.
You can't take off only if you damaged a lot.
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  #126  
Old 08-06-2009, 02:38 PM
Jazzy Jase Jazzy Jase is offline
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Originally Posted by Anton Yudintsev View Post
Of course, not.
You can't take off only if you damaged a lot.
Which is always if you are playing simulation as you can't land without the aircraft flipping over!
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  #127  
Old 08-06-2009, 02:45 PM
H Lecter H Lecter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzy Jase View Post
Which is always if you are playing simulation as you can't land without the aircraft flipping over!
If there is a bug (which I cannot confirm/deny as I didn't land in sim mode yet), I'm sure it will be ironed out for the release of the game - same as the wheelbrakes for the joystick users.
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  #128  
Old 08-06-2009, 02:48 PM
Anton Yudintsev Anton Yudintsev is offline
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Originally Posted by Jazzy Jase View Post
Which is always if you are playing simulation as you can't land without the aircraft flipping over!
That's not true.
A lot of guys here performed landing successfully.
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  #129  
Old 08-06-2009, 03:07 PM
SleepTrgt SleepTrgt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Yudintsev View Post
That's not true.
A lot of guys here performed landing successfully.
With gamepad its fine, but without the ablity to brake with a flight stick at around 55 kmph the plane suddenly stops making it flip over.
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  #130  
Old 08-06-2009, 03:08 PM
Jazzy Jase Jazzy Jase is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Yudintsev View Post
That's not true.
A lot of guys here performed landing successfully.
Well I would like to know how to do it then because my aircraft always flips over in simulation mode when I reach 30 mph. Can you try it yourself and see what happens?

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepTrgt View Post
With gamepad its fine, but without the ablity to brake with a flight stick at around 55 kmph the plane suddenly stops making it flip over.
Yes, I'm using the Aviator in Sim mode. Anton please try this. You will see it is impossible to stop after landing.

Last edited by Jazzy Jase; 08-06-2009 at 03:11 PM.
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