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King's Bounty Famous series of Fantasy Real-time RPG with turn-based battles.

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  #11  
Old 02-18-2015, 09:48 PM
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Zechnophobe Zechnophobe is offline
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My problem isn't units, except for the 5th creature/unit, but the spells and rage abilities. I feel I'm not getting the most out of them. Orc Shield works well to protect the Dragon Riders or Archdemons but the rest seem...not necessary.
% stack damage is pretty darn strong coming from spellbook or rage. It can be a big life saver on impossible against stupidly large stacks that are difficult to control.

My Army (Demoness-Hard, level 60) is Red/Green/Bone dragons, Dragon Riders and Arch Demons. I only lose a unit when I'm careless with Zlogn or similar.I've got Red dragons that cost like 760 leadership, so I've got like 60 of them (Draconix, heart of the dragon, Lord, and the Eye great artifact).

Most fights are Black Hole to draw enemy together, Fire rain + red dragon fire to nuke the heck out of things. Then maybe a target spell on a summoned dragon, or similar controlly effect.

The hardest part of no loss is easily the early game. Playing the Vampire on Impossible and it's hard to avoid losses even after map kiting a whole bunch (Got to galenrim before finishing Portland). Shamans and the volcano spell help a lot because units HATE totems and volcanos.
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  #12  
Old 02-19-2015, 04:02 AM
Shadowcran Shadowcran is offline
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Originally Posted by Zechnophobe View Post
% stack damage is pretty darn strong coming from spellbook or rage. It can be a big life saver on impossible against stupidly large stacks that are difficult to control.

My Army (Demoness-Hard, level 60) is Red/Green/Bone dragons, Dragon Riders and Arch Demons. I only lose a unit when I'm careless with Zlogn or similar.I've got Red dragons that cost like 760 leadership, so I've got like 60 of them (Draconix, heart of the dragon, Lord, and the Eye great artifact).

Most fights are Black Hole to draw enemy together, Fire rain + red dragon fire to nuke the heck out of things. Then maybe a target spell on a summoned dragon, or similar controlly effect.

The hardest part of no loss is easily the early game. Playing the Vampire on Impossible and it's hard to avoid losses even after map kiting a whole bunch (Got to galenrim before finishing Portland). Shamans and the volcano spell help a lot because units HATE totems and volcanos.
You can eliminate the Ziogyns by replacing the Bone dragons. Then you'll only encounter them vs enemy Undead units. However, if you go "full undead", those ziogyns are your buddies.

My current playthrough, I'm level 67 as the vampire. The spell I kited from dragandor coal cart was "Death Star" and with just a little prematch preparation with the level 1 Tactics and you can avoid all damage to your own units using it. It cannot target Dragon Riders for instance and you can put it directly across from it on the map. Also, Death Star....Wrecks Towers great.

With the Vampire, I've found traitor humans work the best, especially after Isenburg becomes dark. Dark paladins resurrection is ...awesome, except it doesn't work on level 5 units. However, Heresiarchs' Resurrection DOES. The Wizard is great until the late game as is the Dark Knights. There is not enough numbers of these creatures so the Blood Priestess comes in handy to fill them up at level ups. With the "Nightmare" designation and the Order of Twilight amulet, my army's morale was "Unshakeable".

If you want to go "full Traitor human", the 5th could be Either Mage Killer or Horseman. For a level 2, Mage Killer has some great abilities.

As of now, my army(except when I experiment) is

1. 22 ArchDemons
2. 22 Dragon Riders
3. 177 Dark Paladins
4. 390 Heresiarchs
5. 195 Wizards(which I can sub 140 Demonologists for)

Creation is a killer spell crucial to Dark Paladins and Heresiarchs. It can sometimes give the Dark Paladin 5 Prayers or the Heresiarch 5 Resurrect at Level 3.

or 5 Thread of Life for the Demonologist

I wonder how many players pass on buying the Alchemy set(s)?

Last edited by Shadowcran; 02-19-2015 at 04:28 AM.
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  #13  
Old 02-19-2015, 10:17 PM
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Zechnophobe Zechnophobe is offline
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Alchemy set is super awesome, I got two in my first run through. Wish it would notify you when it's ready to grant a rune.

I feel like paladins and Heirsarchs should be in reserve for fights where you incur losses. I almost always find them to just make combats drag on compared to dragons (hah, word play). A little stone skin, target or timeback and rarely will a unit be in danger of death. Ultimately I feel I end up using them to resurrect.. themselves.

I'm not finished with the first play through quite yet (wanted to try the Vampire a bit) but I've found zero places selling substantial black dragons or ice dragons. I think 2 or 4 black dragons in the entire game so far. Kinda sad. Next time I'll get 3 call colossus from the magic department and use those at various times.
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  #14  
Old 02-21-2015, 05:24 AM
Shadowcran Shadowcran is offline
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Nope, no places to buy Ice Dragons at all, and only what's in Oncologon's inventory is all the Black Dragons you'll see as well. Well, See as in 'to buy'.

I haven't even bothered to try, but can you use Sacrifice to increase the Emerald and Red? I think so, but haven't tried yet in the entire series.
*So much to experiment with,lol.

With the vampire, you need all the resurrect you can get, not so much Demoness which is why Heresiarchs and Paladins are worth it for the Vampire. Your attack is going to be low(Mine was at 14 at the highest WITH using an attack weapon, 10 most times as I used intellect boosters instead) and around 20 defense tops. No problems with this until you get to Aralan and Helvedia and it's almost impossible to prevent losses. 90 Intellect and both a Fireball/Fire Rain followed by a Death Star on the same turn may wreck a lot of troops, but there's so many later in the game you'll still have a substantial amount to deal with, and a lot of ranged. Also, with damage spells being how you deal with the enemy, you can't afford to waste your two spells(hopefully by this time you've got this ability)on a resurrection or Turn Back Time, unlike with the Demoness. Nope, you have to use the Dark Paladin and Heresiarch for that and even so, you'll be using your first spell(less than 20 mana) on creation often for multiple resurrects from them.

With the Demoness, the spells are enough along with Only Demonologists for healing(And not always necessary either) due to your defense and attack and sheer numbers. You don't have to use attack spells at all, with Distortion being the best buddies of the Demoness. With the Vampire's low leadership, the Demonologists are a piss poor healer for the resurrect, but with the Demoness? More than adequate. Also, low leadership with Vampire makes the Demonologists' Demons very low. To the point they'd often get killed on the first turn they're summoned.

With the Vampire, try and base your army around the Dark Paladin and Heresiarch, which with the Demoness you don't even have to bother recruiting a single one. Archdemons are a great choice due to what all it can do plus it's ability to "shrug off" bleeding, fire etc type effects. Those are the truly dangerous things to your army, bleeding, freeze, poison and burning. Also, using the Dragon Riders as well is worth it. As to the 5th? Anything you want, including just dividing up the Riders. Other good choices for the 5th are any creature with high attack and defense that you simply keep back to pick off the occasional enemy that makes it's way through the trap zone.

With the Vampire, traps truly help. With the Demoness, they're a hindrance and you should only have level 1 on Diversions due to it. Your summoned demons will hit every single one.

I'm about to try the Orc. I won't be playing for no loss, but minimal loss instead. I'm going to see what works best with him. (I assume demons and Orcs).
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  #15  
Old 02-24-2015, 08:31 PM
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Zechnophobe Zechnophobe is offline
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Nope, no places to buy Ice Dragons at all, and only what's in Oncologon's inventory is all the Black Dragons you'll see as well. Well, See as in 'to buy'.

I haven't even bothered to try, but can you use Sacrifice to increase the Emerald and Red? I think so, but haven't tried yet in the entire series.
*So much to experiment with,lol.

With the vampire, you need all the resurrect you can get, not so much Demoness which is why Heresiarchs and Paladins are worth it for the Vampire. Your attack is going to be low(Mine was at 14 at the highest WITH using an attack weapon, 10 most times as I used intellect boosters instead) and around 20 defense tops. No problems with this until you get to Aralan and Helvedia and it's almost impossible to prevent losses. 90 Intellect and both a Fireball/Fire Rain followed by a Death Star on the same turn may wreck a lot of troops, but there's so many later in the game you'll still have a substantial amount to deal with, and a lot of ranged. Also, with damage spells being how you deal with the enemy, you can't afford to waste your two spells(hopefully by this time you've got this ability)on a resurrection or Turn Back Time, unlike with the Demoness. Nope, you have to use the Dark Paladin and Heresiarch for that and even so, you'll be using your first spell(less than 20 mana) on creation often for multiple resurrects from them.

With the Demoness, the spells are enough along with Only Demonologists for healing(And not always necessary either) due to your defense and attack and sheer numbers. You don't have to use attack spells at all, with Distortion being the best buddies of the Demoness. With the Vampire's low leadership, the Demonologists are a piss poor healer for the resurrect, but with the Demoness? More than adequate. Also, low leadership with Vampire makes the Demonologists' Demons very low. To the point they'd often get killed on the first turn they're summoned.

With the Vampire, try and base your army around the Dark Paladin and Heresiarch, which with the Demoness you don't even have to bother recruiting a single one. Archdemons are a great choice due to what all it can do plus it's ability to "shrug off" bleeding, fire etc type effects. Those are the truly dangerous things to your army, bleeding, freeze, poison and burning. Also, using the Dragon Riders as well is worth it. As to the 5th? Anything you want, including just dividing up the Riders. Other good choices for the 5th are any creature with high attack and defense that you simply keep back to pick off the occasional enemy that makes it's way through the trap zone.

With the Vampire, traps truly help. With the Demoness, they're a hindrance and you should only have level 1 on Diversions due to it. Your summoned demons will hit every single one.

I'm about to try the Orc. I won't be playing for no loss, but minimal loss instead. I'm going to see what works best with him. (I assume demons and Orcs).
Just finished with the Demoness, did the final battle with 119 red dragons in my army. Not super hard. And yeah, you can use Sacrifice ability of the new demoness chicks to make them in huge stacks by the end!

I think you are stuck, by the way, in the rut that a lot of people get stuck in when playing the game, you assume the best way to win a fight as the wizard is with high damage spells and resurrection. However if you come at it a different way, you can discover that control magic is far more effective. One of the most ridiculously powerful combo's in the game is target + Time Back. You can target a stack and not care about it's losses until the end of turn 2. Have it soak up every last hit, then time back away all the losses ever.

Otherwise, you can use only level 5 units and cast lots of Fear. Use dark cloud to block off huge regions of enemies, etc. Sure, constantly phantoming a paladin stack out at the end of the fight will work if you have a good mana engine (magic spring at high levels with a left up no-retal enemy works most of the time).

I've done no loss on impossible in AP like it was my job back in the day, and just dropping huge damage spells early on is rarely the best way to go. Think that if you didn't have paladins or inquisitors (each are fairly mediocre damage dealers) you could have instead higher damage units that persistently end fights faster, or more control oriented troops (orc shamans, dryads, etc) that can suppress entire groups of opponents at a time.

It's also much much faster to simply not let your units die than it is to resurrect them a bunch at the end of the fight!
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  #16  
Old 02-24-2015, 09:36 PM
Shadowcran Shadowcran is offline
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Well, I'm playing the Orc now and using mostly dragons:

1. Demonologists- With Creation, no need for more resurrect than that so far. Not only THAT, but the thread of life spell is serious damage to stacks. Hell, it's worth using with the extra charges to heal 20hp of damage just to use the ability(vs dwarves as no matter how good your stacks are, you still have a ton to kill even though they're largely ineffective)
2. Shaman- Basically there to heal the dragons more than damage anything
3. Dragon Riders
4. Red Dragons
5. Emerald Dragons

I've found that, yes, the Blood Priestess can increase the stacks of Emerald and Red Dragons. With low mana, the Emerald Dragon flourishes for you and hits pretty hard with all the extra attack the orc has.

Only Problem: The Shaman are borderline useless in Gremlin battles. I "may" when they become available, use Chemists instead. Their Healing Bottles heal even the Dragon Riders and Black Dragons..if only they resurrected,eh?

The orc needs those leadership artifacts/regalia as they're the key to him as he simply doesn't get enough leadership to even remotely compare with the Demoness. Lucky for the Multiplication Tables and Batons. Both seem to be at least 2 of in every playthrough so far.

I'm using mostly Order spells with him so far and probably distortion later in the game. Seems to go perfectly well without bothering to put one point in Chaos.

Once I get firmly settled(soon) I'll experiment with other units. As to what I've tested so far with him:
Spirit Talkers are pretty damned good despite their low health. They hit hard, need no movement, and their abilities are useful. They even hit hard on Gremlin towers. Odd, but true.

Orc Chieftains? Suck. Basically spend most time resurrecting/healing them even if they 'hang back'.

Ogres? Haven't tried them in this yet, but in others, they were worse than the chieftains.

Humans do as good as with the Vampire and Demoness.

Questions:
1. Why is the best armor in the game a friggin' lab coat?
2. Has anyone seen the spells/abilities Night Power and Dark Cover? I haven't in all playthroughs. Necro Call?Night Power and Dark Cover are part of the spells you cast for medals, yet I haven't seen them.
3. When the enemy bosses use Last Hero, does it often result in a CTD for you?
4. Why haven't I completed a single set of Items in all playthroughs? Closest I came was the Elven set 3/4
5. Why aren't the Circus guy's, the Marie Curie's, and the Dwarven items, all of which have 4, not a set with a bonus for using all 4. Perhaps if upgraded the entire way?
6. Does the game seem "incomplete" to you?

I'm feeling that the missing things could be intended for an expansion to the series. Some parts of the game seem incomplete in the manner of "will be there in the expansion". Darenbam, Bear Butte(anyone else catch the pun?), and Sandy Isles in particular, plus there's parts with clouds on the main map that could contain islands not seen yet. Others?

The Shelter often feels incomplete. It has what it needs for this, but seems like it's waiting for expansion to fill up
-A building to recruit Traitor humans
-A building to recruit Dark Dwarves
-A building to recruit Dark Elves
-A building for the Lizards
-Dark Vikings
The Military Commander seems to have too little to do as it is. The Lizards and Vikings at least could be used for that. Plus, quests could be made for all of the above complete with new shelter occupants for it.
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  #17  
Old 02-25-2015, 06:00 PM
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Zechnophobe Zechnophobe is offline
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Dark Cover is, I believe, a level 5 spell. It's the complement to Life Light. Dark Power is the complement to Light power. You've done the wizard department quests right?

Last Hero does often cause CTD, about a third of the time. I hate this spell for fooling me into thinking it was good. I thought that if I ended a fight with it still in effect, I'd prevent the losses entirely, but you just take them all right at the end. It's only useful on summons.

Item sets are hard to complete. I got the two item dwarf set once, that's it.
Rarely got them in other play through, and rarely is the set bonus even worth it.

You notice that the Department items that all upgrade, the level 3 upgrade isn't harder than the level 2 upgrade? Makes them stupidly weak. You can get 2 DIFFERENT 20 resist all items that are both 'clothing'. I have no idea who thought that was a good idea...

The military commander is basically just a way to turn prisoners into runes, I think. I believe you can infinitely buy recruits from Feline, and infinitely use them to get runes from him, so long as you have infinite money. But it's cheaper than buying runes from the Penguin after a point.

I don't get the Great Artifacts either. Are they all basically worthless, except for the Dragon one? Just there to get turned into army bonus'? Why do some have wear and tear that goes up and down, and some don't? Do they get better at 100?
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  #18  
Old 02-25-2015, 10:07 PM
Shadowcran Shadowcran is offline
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Dark Cover is, I believe, a level 5 spell. It's the complement to Life Light. Dark Power is the complement to Light power. You've done the wizard department quests right?

Last Hero does often cause CTD, about a third of the time. I hate this spell for fooling me into thinking it was good. I thought that if I ended a fight with it still in effect, I'd prevent the losses entirely, but you just take them all right at the end. It's only useful on summons.

Item sets are hard to complete. I got the two item dwarf set once, that's it.
Rarely got them in other play through, and rarely is the set bonus even worth it.

You notice that the Department items that all upgrade, the level 3 upgrade isn't harder than the level 2 upgrade? Makes them stupidly weak. You can get 2 DIFFERENT 20 resist all items that are both 'clothing'. I have no idea who thought that was a good idea...

The military commander is basically just a way to turn prisoners into runes, I think. I believe you can infinitely buy recruits from Feline, and infinitely use them to get runes from him, so long as you have infinite money. But it's cheaper than buying runes from the Penguin after a point.

I don't get the Great Artifacts either. Are they all basically worthless, except for the Dragon one? Just there to get turned into army bonus'? Why do some have wear and tear that goes up and down, and some don't? Do they get better at 100?
Ah, I have gotten them. I think due to getting them so late that I forgot and by that time, I have the medal anyways by spamming blur

Yeah, I don't use Last hero either.

I mean, in other KB I've gotten many sets. Just in this one they seem to be almost impossible to get.

For all but the dwarf items, it does seem the level 3 upgrade is easier than the level 2..a cakewalk. The Screwdriver is the hardest one

Yeah, I feel all those artifacts are worthless as well.

Finally can recruit some Archdemons in this playthrough. Ever notice how good they are vs dragons? They hit stacks kind of meh with their physical attacks but hit dragons pretty damned hard.

With so many different sets from past versions and so few in this one, I'm guessing that those are slated for an expansion. Anyways, I hope there's an expansion.

Ever think someone could make a good trading card game from this? At least an online one...I'm a MTG fanatic as well.
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