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King`s Bounty: Warriors of the North Next game in the award-winning King’s Bounty series

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Old 04-21-2017, 01:49 PM
Xev Xev is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 32

I do not think that higher leadership for lvl5 units will be the correct way to avoid overpowered lvl5 strategies. If i had only 1 single green dragon instead of 25 of them, then it's the same easy way to win except phantom copying. The key to win with dragons or archdemons is their initiative and their speed. They flee away from enemy because they start each round and fly from one corner to the other.
Damage maker are not the lvl5 units but summoned units and damage spells.
Give them initiative 3 or speed 3 (not both together) and they are useful but not overpowered.
Archdemons has this volcano ability. As a mage my main damage in 1st half of the game came from rage skills. Until turn 20 you have full rage all the time with volcano skill from the archdemons. I splitted the demons so that i got more volcanos from each single demons. This volcano skill must be lowered (best no rage), archdemons are good enough without this skill.
On starting isle all combats could be won with a single chaos dragon. More: you could only win it no loss if you avoid other units. With initiative 6 speed 6 they were good, but full regeneration each turn make them overpowered.
Sure: you are right - if anyone wants to cheat he can load/save game until it fits. There's no recipt against this cheating. If a player can live with it, okay.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:32 PM
raknefne raknefne is offline
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 310

Some very good ideas. But in the original game, dragons had lots of speed and initiative too... I can see some lvl5 like Troll, Ogre, Orc Chieftain walk with only 2 in speed and have little initiative too. Could raise either speed or initiative on them too - just a little.

Orig. game/Vanilla:
Blackdragon: 8 speed, 6 ini
arcdemon: 9 speed, 8 ini

You mentioned, it was easier to play the mod than Vanilla, so I guess the damage from Archmages has to be put down a bit:
I had a look at the code for Archdemons, I can lower the damage of the vulcanos and make the reload bigger, not so sure if I can controle how much rage it will give. Normally less damage=less rage unless you have a high level of the ANGER SKILL. I can also see that the average damage is the same in Vanilla and Hylfire pr. Archdemon, but the Leadership is much much lower in Hylfire! So yes, when that is lowered it is more balanced. Was it still an overpow unit in Vanilla?

I can imagine this concept in Bonfire for level 5's:
SLOW (troll, ogre etc): 2 speed, 5-6 Initiative
FLIGHTS (dragons, archdemon): 7-9 speed, 3-4 ini with variations ofc

Last edited by raknefne; 04-21-2017 at 02:48 PM. Reason: errors
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Old 04-22-2017, 04:15 AM
Xev Xev is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 32

Your concept for lvl5 is great!
Reduced ini but full speed make dragons useful but not too powerful.
In Vanilla green dragons were ok (5 ini, 6 speed). Red/Black/Archdemons were overpowered too.
No unit should have BOTH ini and speed such high. 5/6 or 4/7 or 3/9 are good combinations.
Archdemons: I got 2 of them very early - I like to get randomized creatures from all races, that's really fun! Problem is not the damage of them. It's high anger in combination with volcano skill. Even if volcano gives only 1 dmg, it will generate rage by hit.

Hylfire was easier for me than Vanilla because
- green dragons (after some exp) had 11 ini and 8 speed. Gives a lot of mana - phantom copies generate endless mana. Raged berserkers were the only unit with higher ini.
- max mana with fauns upgrade
- max rage in Hylfire was high when playing a mage class like vanilla playing with might class
- could buy 2 archdemons from shop on one of the 1st isles. Splitting them in 2 stacks and high anger (i put all red only there) = max rage (as a mage!!!)

There is one more overpowered thing: Lynch Mob spell.
It summons very high leadership (double of hero leadership) at low mana costs and generates very strong farmers who will summon plants ... and the plants summon next plants. If lvl5 units were not available then this is the next easy way to succeed.
Reducing leadership or switch farmer to pirate units or raise mana costs should be better.

Please don't take me as only reference. Other players prefer easier playing. The main goal should be to have fun with the mod.
If overpowering is reduced then some underpowering should be raised. Perhaps it's useful to discuss which units/spells are much too weak? i.e. there is a spell which summons uncontrollable lizard units with great leadership. Looks nice on 1st view but these lizard units are really weak and are dying fast.

thx for doing a great job!!!
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