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  #1  
Old 03-19-2017, 11:00 PM
Marabekm Marabekm is offline
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Default Problem attaching flights

I know its been reported before, but is anything being done to correct the issue where when you attach two flights of aircraft together, the number 4 and number 5 always attempt to occupy the same place at the exact same time? Needless to say this doesn't work out well.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:21 AM
RPS69 RPS69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marabekm View Post
I know its been reported before, but is anything being done to correct the issue where when you attach two flights of aircraft together, the number 4 and number 5 always attempt to occupy the same place at the exact same time? Needless to say this doesn't work out well.
What do you mean by "attach"?
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:52 AM
Marabekm Marabekm is offline
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Well in the specific mission I am doing, I have 8 Ju-87s and I want them to fly in a group. The game has a maximum of 4 planes in a flight so that would be 1-4. Then I put in the 2nd flight, 5-8. No when I go into the waypoints, for the second flight, 5-8, I set it so it has a target of the first flight 1-4. This way the flights will act as a larger group. But the problem is, the number 5 plane always attempts to occupy the number 4 plane's spot.

This happens with any plane, not just Ju-87s. That's just what I am using now.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:24 PM
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dimlee dimlee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marabekm View Post
Well in the specific mission I am doing, I have 8 Ju-87s and I want them to fly in a group. The game has a maximum of 4 planes in a flight so that would be 1-4. Then I put in the 2nd flight, 5-8. No when I go into the waypoints, for the second flight, 5-8, I set it so it has a target of the first flight 1-4. This way the flights will act as a larger group. But the problem is, the number 5 plane always attempts to occupy the number 4 plane's spot.

This happens with any plane, not just Ju-87s. That's just what I am using now.
Suggest you create your bomber formations from flights of 3 (not 4). It should help. Also you might need to try various distances between the flights, horizontal and vertical.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:20 AM
RPS69 RPS69 is offline
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Originally Posted by dimlee View Post
Suggest you create your bomber formations from flights of 3 (not 4). It should help. Also you might need to try various distances between the flights, horizontal and vertical.
I agree, finger four is a fighter formation. Bombers werre arranged using packs of 3 units.

For making big formations, I always trace one flight, and then clone it opening the mis file with a text editor.
After cloning I change altitude, and fistances by a factor of 200m or 400m.
It depends on the plane type.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:24 PM
coyote40368 coyote40368 is offline
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If you want to keep your flights at four planes each, try making the target flight fly an "echelon left" formation. That should keep no. 4 out of no. 5's way. You'll have to do it for every waypoint, be careful not to miss one!
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Old 03-26-2017, 06:59 PM
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dimlee dimlee is offline
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By the way, this man should know a lot about setting up bomber formations:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFM...LJjRqMDyyVwfMA

He appeared on this forum but under different nickname.
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Q: Mr. Rall, what was the best tactic against the P-47?
A: Against the P-47? Shoot him down!
(Gunther Rall's lecture. June 2003, Finland)
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  #8  
Old 06-17-2017, 10:02 PM
Pursuivant Pursuivant is offline
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Originally Posted by arnoritter View Post
I reported the issues multiple times, on different forums.
The problem of bombers in formation wildly maneuvering when enemy fighters appear first showed up in 4.12, and seems to affect Ace and Veteran AI bombers worse than Rookie AI.

The solution isn't to make heavy bombers in formation stop maneuvering, but maneuver more intelligently.

I've suggested these ideas before, but presumably there wasn't enough interest or manpower to make them happen.

For FMB and possibly QMB:

* Option to have 3 plane sections by default rather than 4 plane sections. Could be set by nationality, by year, for a class of plane, or for specific plane type.

* Option to have a selection of pre-set historical formations, like the 1942 RAF "Big Wing" or USAAF 1943-45 heavy bomber formations. Mission builders could add more formation types.

* Option to have planes in formation hold formation even when attacked - either throughout the mission, or between certain waypoints (e.g., from the waypoint establishing IP for bombing or dropping torpedoes to the end of the target run.)

* Option to automatically have planes "zig zag," or otherwise maneuver in formation, along a preset heading between waypoints. Options:
- "Tail End Charlie" (one plane at the end of formation weaves while rest hold formation).
- "Defensive Weave" (two planes, flights, or sections "scissor" along a horizontal axis, to provide mutual support).
- "Anti-flak" (every 15-30 seconds, entire formation randomly turns 10-30 degrees left or right while gaining or losing 30-100 m of altitude)
- "Racetrack escort" (one group of planes orbits over another section, flying in overlapping circles or ovals along the course of the planes they're escorting).
- "Weaving escort" (as above, but escorts do a defensive weave)
- "Corkscrew" (individual bombers fly a series of shallow climbing and diving banks while traveling along a base heading).

* Escort option - one flight will follow the course of another flight of planes, even if they're of a different type, and will defend them from enemy aircraft.

* Option to have mixed formations of planes (e.g., B-229 and Bf-109G in same formation, as was used by FAF, or mixed formations of B-24 and B-17 like the USAAF occasionally did in 1942.)

* Option to designate rally points for planes. If lost, planes will head to the rally point and orbit for a set amount of time before returning home.

* Option to designate backup leader for flights, or to switch lead. Important for bomber formations if lead bomber is damaged.

* Option for rest of planes in group to automatically drop bombs (or otherwise fire ordinance) when lead plane does so. This was USAAF doctrine in 1944-45, where experienced "lead bombers" set the drop point for the entire bomber formation.

* Option for heavy bombers to act "intelligently" while in formation. Heavy bombers would spread out when a bomber in the formation was hit to avoid possibility of damage should the stricken plane explode. They might also loosen formation when flak appeared to avoid the chance of collision and/or one flak burst damaging multiple aircraft. They'd tighten formation automatically when hostile fighters appeared.

* Option for aircraft to automatically slow down to match speed of damaged planes in formation.

* Option for planes to separate from formation and become a new flight - either permanently or between two waypoints. Very good for missions where a huge bomber formation flies together for most of the mission, then individual formations break off to attack different targets (e.g., the way the first USAAF Ploesti mission was supposed to happen).

* Option for planes to combine formations. Very useful for players attempting to take command of planes from several flights, or different squadrons, after casualties or planes become widely separated. Also useful for fighters to "join formation" with bombers for mutual support when returning to base. (USAAF fighter pilots liked having the extra eyes and dedicated navigator aboard the bombers. Bomber crews liked having their own personal fighter escort.)

* Option for various historical flight/section/squadron attack formations, like USN/USMC beam attack, or VVS "Circle of Death".

* Option to get planes under your command to attack a particular target from a particular direction (i.e., High, Low or Level, and 1-12 O' Clock).
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  #9  
Old 06-17-2017, 11:33 PM
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dimlee dimlee is offline
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Good to see Fishyy the movie maker here. Your YT works are great.

Nice list of Pursuivant. Just few notes:
Escort option - we have it but "half baked". Requires some work with speeds and separation distances and escorts can be distracted by other targets and abandon the bomber formation.
Option to automatically drop bombs is in C&C Mod. Wish we could have it in stock game...

Just as a side note... In my online exploits I have noticed that sometimes twin engine bombers break the formation with rapid change of course and altitude when under fighter's attack. For heavy interceptor as Bf 110 this is pure joy - you fly through 4xB-25 without firing a shot and they run in various direction making easier targets for next attacks.
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Q: Mr. Rall, what was the best tactic against the P-47?
A: Against the P-47? Shoot him down!
(Gunther Rall's lecture. June 2003, Finland)
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  #10  
Old 07-05-2017, 11:52 PM
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wheelsup_cavu wheelsup_cavu is offline
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When you attach one flight to another the lead flight will change its formation but the flight of planes that is attached will always use the default formation. This makes changing the formation flown by the attached flights irrelevant.


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