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Old 05-23-2012, 06:01 AM
baronWastelan baronWastelan is offline
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Default F-22ski Just Got Later And More Expensive

[copied without comment from http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/hta.../20120522.aspx ]
May 22, 2012: The Russian answer to the American F-22, the T-50 (or PAK-FA), has been delayed two years. It will now, barring more delays, be ready for mass production in 2019. This is according to India, which is collaborating with Russia in the development of this Russian designed fighter. The delay worries India because they are picking up half the $6 billion dollar development cost. A two year delay means rising costs and the Russians have not announced any budget changes yet. Moreover, the $6 billion only covers work on the basic aircraft. All the avionics will be extra, and India is unclear of how much extra. India has had serious (and expensive) problems with Russian development cost projections before. Undeterred, India planned to buy 250 (now reduced to 200) of the new T-50s, for about $100 million each. An increasing number of Indians now see the T-50 possibly following the same cost trajectory as the F-22.

The T-50 prototype first flew two years ago. Russians and Indians have been doing a lot of tinkering since then. While the T-50 is the stealthiest aircraft the Russians have, it is not nearly as stealthy as the F-22, or even the F-35 or B-2. The Russians are apparently going to emphasize maneuverability instead of stealth. India wants more stealth and would prefer a two-seat aircraft. There are also problems perfecting the engines for the T-50 and the defensive electronics. This puts the T-50 at a big disadvantage against the F-22 or F-35, which try to detect enemy aircraft at long distance, without being spotted, and then fire a radar guided missile (like AMRAAM). These problems are apparently the main reason for the two year delay.

The Russians want to sell their "Fifth Generation Fighter" (the T-50, which they admit is not true 5th Gen) to China, India, and other foreign customers. With the Indian participation Russia now has the billions of dollars it will take to carry out the T-50 development program. India is not just contributing cash but also technology and manufacturing capability.

The T-50 is a 34 ton fighter that is more maneuverable than the 33 ton Su-27, has much better electronics, and is stealthy. It can cruise at above the speed of sound. It also costs at least fifty percent more than the Su-27. That would be some $60 million (for a barebones model, at least 50 percent more with all the options), about what a top-of-the-line F-16 costs. The Su-27 was originally developed to match the F-15, which is larger than the single engine F-16.

Russia is promising a fighter with a life of 6,000 flight hours and engines good for 4,000 hours. Russia promises world-class avionics, plus a very pilot-friendly cockpit. The use of many thrusters and fly-by-wire will produce an aircraft even more maneuverable than earlier Su-30s (which have been extremely agile).

The T-50 is not meant to be a direct rival for the F-22 because the Russian aircraft is not as stealthy. But if the maneuverability and advanced electronics live up to the promises, the aircraft would be more than a match for every fighter out there except the F-22. If such a T-50 was sold for well under $100 million each there would be a lot of buyers. For the moment the T-50 and the Chinese J-20 are the only potential competitors for the F-22 in development. Like the F-22 development expenses are increasing, and it looks like the T-50 will cost at least $120 million each (including a share of the development cost) but only if 500 or more are manufactured. Russia hopes to build as many as a thousand. Only 187 F-22s were built because of the high cost. American developers are now seeking to apply their stealth, and other technologies, to the development of combat UAVs. Thus by the time the T-50 enters service, in 7-10 years, it may already be made obsolete by cheaper, unmanned, stealthy fighters.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:57 AM
Pudfark Pudfark is offline
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I'm in general agreement with your observations.
I just can't resist pointing out a historical fact.....

In the last 30 years?
How have the "Russian" aircraft fared against "U.S." aircraft?

There is no such thing as a fair fight, you get what you pay for...
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:24 AM
xpzorg xpzorg is offline
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 75

Funny BS. They try compare finished product with prototype(look at the T-10 and Su-27, even 3 prototypes of T-50 differ from each other)
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:47 AM
chantaje chantaje is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: BsAs, Argentina
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its surely more fair to compare it to the f 35 , they were developed in the same period of time,

i have to thank the universe or "god" that some nations still spend more on education or health than on weapons of destruction.
i hope they can influence the world as much as other "ideologies"(?) do
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:53 AM
swiss swiss is offline
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Originally Posted by baronWastelan View Post
While the T-50 is the stealthiest aircraft the Russians have, it is not nearly as stealthy as the F-22, or even the F-35 or B-2.
True, untill the they fire, which requires the weapon bay dorrs to open...
What about IR?

"Fifth Generation Fighter" (the T-50, which they admit is not true 5th Gen)
It is not 5th Gen? Why?

Btw: Shouldn't the F22s currently be grounded?
Air Combat Command, which oversees the F-22s, said the planes will stay in “close proximity to military airfields,”

Read more: http://www.newsherald.com/articles/f...#ixzz1vh1Xjzew
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