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IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator.

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  #471  
Old 10-01-2010, 05:24 AM
airmalik airmalik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox View Post
We check each aircraft for each parameter... for the damage... Say if you missed the wing... then the gun that was there shouldn' continue to shot
Something like this.
Please leave this bug in. Call it a feature or fix it in a patch. I'd love to saw off someone's wing and see the attached guns spraying bullets wildly as the wing tumbles to the ground.

Joking of course but I'd still enjoy this 'bug'
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  #472  
Old 10-01-2010, 05:39 AM
Blackdog_kt Blackdog_kt is offline
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Would be nice if it was modelled according to the amount of priming.

Since different ambient temperatures demand different amounts of priming (more priming for cold weather starts), it is entirely possible to over-prime if you misjudge the effect of atmospheric temperature and get the flames.

Apart from experience with operating the engine, the other way to prevent unburnt fuel from dripping out the exhaust is to slightly under-prime before turning the engine, then as it's turning prime further until it starts and seems to stabilize in RPM. However, you can't do that in most fighters because they lack the capacity to run their starters for a long time.

Multi-engined aircraft had continuous direct drive starters or hybrid inertia and direct drive starters. The B17 had the latter, the inertia starter would spin up (energize phase) and then coupled to the engine to start turning it (start phase) but if it failed to start instantly the starter kept turning the engine, albeit at a lower RPM, driven by battery power.

However, most batteries of the time couldn't reach a sufficient capacity to run a continuous starter without the battery weight becoming prohibitive for use on fighters. That's why most fighters used pure inertia starters or even cartridge starters (blank shotgun shells that when fired, provided the energy to turn the engine). I think cartridge starters were more common on RAF types.

US and German ones mostly used battery driven inertia starters. Instead of spinning the entire engine the battery is used to spin a metal disk to very high RPM and then that disk is connected to the engine via a clutch mechanism, transferring its rotational motion to the engine's axis (the crankshaft, isn't this what this is called?) and turning the engine for start. Since the metal disk is essentially a free spinning flywheel that doesn't have to work against piston compression, it's easier to spin it without draining the battery. Of course, the amount of energy transferred between each system is the same (minus the friction/heat loss), but for brief periods of turning the engine (assuming it will start within 2-3 attempts with the inertia starter) the drain on battery would probably be less than using a direct drive mechanism.

Some of the German planes even used hand-cranked inertia starters. This is widely visible on videos of aircraft using the DB engines, like 109s and 110s, where the mechanic is manually winding up the starter.

However, in the videos posted by Richie we can see the 109 G-10 starting on its own. I'm not sure if it was like that originally, or the mechanics at EADS took advantage of modern technology and installed a battery capable of powering the inertia starter without the need for hand-cranking.
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  #473  
Old 10-01-2010, 06:43 AM
WTE_Galway WTE_Galway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt View Post
Would be nice if it was modelled according to the amount of priming.

Since different ambient temperatures demand different amounts of priming (more priming for cold weather starts), it is entirely possible to over-prime if you misjudge the effect of atmospheric temperature and get the flames.

Apart from experience with operating the engine, the other way to prevent unburnt fuel from dripping out the exhaust is to slightly under-prime before turning the engine, then as it's turning prime further until it starts and seems to stabilize in RPM. However, you can't do that in most fighters because they lack the capacity to run their starters for a long time.

Multi-engined aircraft had continuous direct drive starters or hybrid inertia and direct drive starters. The B17 had the latter, the inertia starter would spin up (energize phase) and then coupled to the engine to start turning it (start phase) but if it failed to start instantly the starter kept turning the engine, albeit at a lower RPM, driven by battery power.

However, most batteries of the time couldn't reach a sufficient capacity to run a continuous starter without the battery weight becoming prohibitive for use on fighters. That's why most fighters used pure inertia starters or even cartridge starters (blank shotgun shells that when fired, provided the energy to turn the engine). I think cartridge starters were more common on RAF types.

US and German ones mostly used battery driven inertia starters. Instead of spinning the entire engine the battery is used to spin a metal disk to very high RPM and then that disk is connected to the engine via a clutch mechanism, transferring its rotational motion to the engine's axis (the crankshaft, isn't this what this is called?) and turning the engine for start. Since the metal disk is essentially a free spinning flywheel that doesn't have to work against piston compression, it's easier to spin it without draining the battery. Of course, the amount of energy transferred between each system is the same (minus the friction/heat loss), but for brief periods of turning the engine (assuming it will start within 2-3 attempts with the inertia starter) the drain on battery would probably be less than using a direct drive mechanism.

Some of the German planes even used hand-cranked inertia starters. This is widely visible on videos of aircraft using the DB engines, like 109s and 110s, where the mechanic is manually winding up the starter.

However, in the videos posted by Richie we can see the 109 G-10 starting on its own. I'm not sure if it was like that originally, or the mechanics at EADS took advantage of modern technology and installed a battery capable of powering the inertia starter without the need for hand-cranking.
The other common one was compressed air. See the Fiat at 0:58 here:

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  #474  
Old 10-01-2010, 07:18 AM
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proton45 proton45 is offline
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I'm giddy with excitement...I wonder if Oleg is going to post the old video clips he spoke of?

I'm really curious about what they might show...
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  #475  
Old 10-01-2010, 07:19 AM
Kudlius Kudlius is offline
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Hm. German tanks? Maybe it means France occupation war.
If it is so, maybe you can show Morane in screenshots?
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  #476  
Old 10-01-2010, 07:39 AM
Bobb4 Bobb4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudlius View Post
Hm. German tanks? Maybe it means France occupation war.
If it is so, maybe you can show Morane in screenshots?
That would be the in the first expansion I am guessing?
Followed rapidy by the war in the Med/Africa before we are taken to Barbarossa
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  #477  
Old 10-01-2010, 08:57 AM
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Richie Richie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rall View Post
Thanks for posting those vids Richie

I just LOVE the sound of the Bf 109

You're welcome Rall. 109's are great!
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  #478  
Old 10-01-2010, 10:07 AM
swiss swiss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airmalik View Post
Please leave this bug in. Call it a feature or fix it in a patch. I'd love to saw off someone's wing and see the attached guns spraying bullets wildly as the wing tumbles to the ground.

Joking of course but I'd still enjoy this 'bug'
Just kill the pilot while he's firing - same effect.
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  #479  
Old 10-01-2010, 10:33 AM
HanneG HanneG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt View Post
Some of the German planes even used hand-cranked inertia starters. This is widely visible on videos of aircraft using the DB engines, like 109s and 110s, where the mechanic is manually winding up the starter.

However, in the videos posted by Richie we can see the 109 G-10 starting on its own. I'm not sure if it was like that originally, or the mechanics at EADS took advantage of modern technology and installed a battery capable of powering the inertia starter without the need for hand-cranking.


German secret tech in a 1970's Russian car, licensed by Fiat, no less. Maybe the resident Italian crank (pun intended) wants to chime in
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  #480  
Old 10-01-2010, 12:18 PM
Insuber Insuber is offline
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In the 60's and 70's several models of western cars had hand-cranked emergency start as well. I remember among others many Citroen and Renault models. It makes a lot of sense in very cold climates such as the Russian one, often far from a mechanic shop.
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