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Go Back   Official 1C Company forum > 1C Publishing > IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey

IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey Famous title comes to consoles.

View Poll Results: which would you buy?
*T.Flight Stick X 9 8.11%
*T.Flight Hotas X 57 51.35%
AV8R-03 26 23.42%
other (please state) 19 17.12%
Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 08-29-2009, 05:04 AM
PedroTheGoat PedroTheGoat is offline
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I ordered an Aviator on eBay about a week ago due to recommendations from these forums. Plus, the other 2 flightsticks for 360 just run too much.

Everything sounds wonderful except for the rudder and no ability to wheel brake. I desperately hope this is addressed in time for the release or soon thereafter. It sounds like it's going to be tons of fun to fly with the stick... I just wish there wasn't any huge trade offs like there is now.
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  #22  
Old 08-29-2009, 08:25 AM
Beliall Beliall is offline
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lots of opinion here, makes interesting reading, thanks, but between the hotas and aviator, theres not a lot of choice really, they both have really terrible bad points.
the only reason im considering changing is because i cant customise my normal controller, everythings in the wrong place, and i hoped that a joystick would be the way to go. perhaps not as i cant stand deadzones, rudder control sounds awful ( i cant stop crashing the mustang on sim as it is ) and the hat switch is a compromise.
difficult decision to be made on tuesday then!
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  #23  
Old 08-29-2009, 08:39 AM
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trk29 trk29 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beliall View Post
lots of opinion here, makes interesting reading, thanks, but between the hotas and aviator, theres not a lot of choice really, they both have really terrible bad points.
the only reason im considering changing is because i cant customise my normal controller, everythings in the wrong place, and i hoped that a joystick would be the way to go. perhaps not as i cant stand deadzones, rudder control sounds awful ( i cant stop crashing the mustang on sim as it is ) and the hat switch is a compromise.
difficult decision to be made on tuesday then!
If you want to customize buttons and neither one of these sticks will work for you take a look at this thread it is a gamepad made by thrustmaster.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=9032
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  #24  
Old 08-29-2009, 09:10 AM
Beliall Beliall is offline
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i figured if i had a joystick, i wouldnt need to customise buttons, but if i decide that the joysticks problems are not worth the hassle, ill definatly pick up one of those pads. i can see me using it in other games as well
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  #25  
Old 08-29-2009, 11:38 AM
lazyboy_se lazyboy_se is offline
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Originally Posted by Robotic Pope View Post
So how does the Ace edge actually manage that? You must have to use a shift button for one of the analog controls?

I don't have a stick yet so I'm no expert but I thought the whole problem with the configs is that there aren't enough analog directions available on the consoles. Obviously you need one 4 direction analog stick for flight controls, 1 analog direction for the throttle(The control pad uses the left analog stick but I seems to me it is acting as just a digital in the up down directions of the throttle), 4 analog directions for the hat and finally 2 directions for the rudder. 11 total directions. Unfortunatly thats 1 too many for the PS3 and 360.

I guess the AV8R was designed with too many analog directions so you could chose in its software which ones it used when used on a PC.

So anyway the AV8R has to have digital on/off rudder because all the extra analog directions are used up by the analog hat free look (you wouldn't really want an analog left rudder, digital right rudder or vice verse, would you). And the thrustmaster config has to be creative to find space for only 4 of the 8 digital buttons on the hat (I'm guessing it uses the 4 diagonal directions of the D-pad?)

I really think that both the AV8R config and Thrustmaster config will need to use one button as a shift key. So thrustmaster could have the whole 8 directions of the D-pad assigned to the hat free look, then hold a button and it would become wingman commands. The AV8R isn't as easy, it would need to have a button to switch from rudder control to free look but I think you would have to have the rudder on the hat because I'm not sure a duplicate control can be set for the stick twist to be the same as left/right on the hat.

Anyway you can really see how difficult it all is for the developers.
I see what you mean, but if you would assign the throttle to r2 and rudder to L2 where 50% is no rudder 0% is left rudder and 100% is right rudder wouldn't that solve the problem?
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  #26  
Old 08-29-2009, 12:35 PM
versapak versapak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotic Pope View Post
So how does the Ace edge actually manage that? You must have to use a shift button for one of the analog controls?

I don't have a stick yet so I'm no expert but I thought the whole problem with the configs is that there aren't enough analog directions available on the consoles. Obviously you need one 4 direction analog stick for flight controls, 1 analog direction for the throttle(The control pad uses the left analog stick but I seems to me it is acting as just a digital in the up down directions of the throttle), 4 analog directions for the hat and finally 2 directions for the rudder. 11 total directions. Unfortunatly thats 1 too many for the PS3 and 360.

I guess the AV8R was designed with too many analog directions so you could chose in its software which ones it used when used on a PC.

So anyway the AV8R has to have digital on/off rudder because all the extra analog directions are used up by the analog hat free look (you wouldn't really want an analog left rudder, digital right rudder or vice verse, would you). And the thrustmaster config has to be creative to find space for only 4 of the 8 digital buttons on the hat (I'm guessing it uses the 4 diagonal directions of the D-pad?)

I really think that both the AV8R config and Thrustmaster config will need to use one button as a shift key. So thrustmaster could have the whole 8 directions of the D-pad assigned to the hat free look, then hold a button and it would become wingman commands. The AV8R isn't as easy, it would need to have a button to switch from rudder control to free look but I think you would have to have the rudder on the hat because I'm not sure a duplicate control can be set for the stick twist to be the same as left/right on the hat.

Anyway you can really see how difficult it all is for the developers.
For the Ace Edge, the throttle and rudder use the analog of triggers. The main flight stick is the left stick, and the view stick is the right analog stick.

On the 360 the AV8R-02 uses those same functions thanks to a standard that MS has made for flight sticks on 360.
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  #27  
Old 08-29-2009, 04:05 PM
towman towman is offline
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Quote:
So anyway the AV8R has to have digital on/off rudder because all the extra analog directions are used up by the analog hat free look
However if you use the wireless controller, you can push L3 and "analog" look around, and when you don't push the L3 then you have analog rudder, so it is possible to control both in increments.

I just loaded up MS Flight Simulator on my PC with the Aviator plugged in, and the twistgrip rudder works perfectly, also the dead zones are adjustable by the software and it helped with the hardware dead zones.

Both points (on/off rudder and huge dead zones) are fixable and they should be fixed in a patch (if not fixed already in the retail version, which I doubt).
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  #28  
Old 08-29-2009, 04:35 PM
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Robotic Pope Robotic Pope is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by versapak View Post
For the Ace Edge, the throttle and rudder use the analog of triggers. The main flight stick is the left stick, and the view stick is the right analog stick.

On the 360 the AV8R-02 uses those same functions thanks to a standard that MS has made for flight sticks on 360.
Ah ok I see now. So the AV8R uses 10 analog directions after-all by having only 1 direction each for throttle and rudder. The TM sticks use 10 aswell but the throttle and rudder both have 2 directions (like on the gamepad) giving it twice the accuracy of the AV8R. The Trustmasters use the final two analog directions for gun trigger buttons? Where the AV8R (and the Ace Pro) must have digital trigger buttons.

Now I believe the rudder problem on the AV8R is not because it is on/off but because there is just not enough range in just one analog direction, so you can't get the accuracy you want with the stick twist. I think this also explains why you can't get the wheel brakes to work, because the game's throttle was designed for the 2 directions and the point of braking is quite small (smaller than the point WEP kicks in at the top of the range). This braking point is twice as small when you half accuracy and the AV8R isn't designed to the same quality as the Ace pro and cannot find the spot.

{EDIT: Bit of a brain malfuntion for me there. Braking point wouold be twice as large not small, I guess they had too decrease the size of it otherwise you would be braking when the throttle was in around a 25% position. They just decreased it too much for the AV8R to see it.}

So if the developers want the Av8R to work properly they need to add a setting which slows rudder movement by a half and add a setting to lower the increments that the throttle goes up in (maybe in 2% or 5%). This would allow for a bigger zone for braking.

This is all my best guess work though, I could be completly wrong lol

Last edited by Robotic Pope; 08-29-2009 at 04:49 PM.
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  #29  
Old 08-29-2009, 05:12 PM
lazyboy_se lazyboy_se is offline
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No, if you try the AV8R setting on the control you will see that the rudder is mapped to the digital L1/R1 buttons. So the rudder is indeed on/off.
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  #30  
Old 08-29-2009, 05:31 PM
Captain Cutaway Captain Cutaway is offline
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I'm lucky enough to have both the AV8R and the Hori Ace Edge EX. Was hoping that either one would work with Over-g Fighters but both have issues. As far as BoP(xbox 360) is concerned, my favorite is the Ace-Edge. Still trying to figure out how the trim works though. Cheers!
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