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Go Back   Official 1C Company forum > 1C Publishing > IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover

IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer 1C: Maddox Games.

View Poll Results: Steam poll
Yes I have and like using Steam 256 54.47%
Yes I have and dont like using Steam 67 14.26%
No I do not have Steam but will for CoD 52 11.06%
No I do not have Steam and will not for CoD 95 20.21%
Voters: 470. You may not vote on this poll

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  #181  
Old 03-13-2011, 10:42 PM
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ElAurens ElAurens is offline
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1. There is no such thing as an unbiased poll.

2. Read my post for comprehension next time.

Where did I say Oleg should not sell the game on Steam? I did not say that, in fact I have said it would be good for the sim.

What I am asking is why the draconian requirement to have a Steam account to use the software even if you did not buy it from Steam.

Can you understand the difference?

Lots of titles are marketed on Steam and through traditional outlets and they do not require a Steam account for those that do not buy the Steam version. Why should Cliffs of Dover be any different?

It's about choice and freedom in the market place.
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  #182  
Old 03-13-2011, 10:54 PM
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JG52Krupi JG52Krupi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElAurens View Post
2. Read my post for comprehension next time.
Comprehend what exactly?

I do agree with the fact they didn't have to use steamworks but there are benefits to a lot of people, I still fail to see why people are getting fed up over having to install steam on there computer (Unless those reports are true and it was actually made by governments so they could spy on your internet activities... believe me there are plenty of software hidden in windows and other "Trusted" software that would make your jaw hit the floor, if you have the internet you might as well walk around with a huge sign tied to your back listing all your personal details in size 200 font).

Also when i said show me an example of a unbiased poll i was sarcastically saying "1. There is no such thing as an unbiased poll." so "2. Read my post for comprehension next time."

Last edited by JG52Krupi; 03-13-2011 at 11:05 PM.
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  #183  
Old 03-13-2011, 10:54 PM
zauii zauii is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JG52Krupi View Post

So Oleg shouldn't be allowed to open his game up to a larger audience and let his team get the money and praise for 6 years hard work because ~60 people on this forum have a sissy fit.

I can understand why you might not like steam and there are plenty of people out there that refuse to use steam sure but most of those boil down to misconceptions and bad luck that some have experienced using steam...

Hell im not going to be a fool, I have waited 6 years for a game to come out I will not let the fact that it uses a steam interface turn me away at the last second...
Quoted for truth, well said.
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  #184  
Old 03-13-2011, 11:16 PM
The Kraken The Kraken is offline
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Originally Posted by ElAurens View Post
And I would still like a reasoned response to the Steam requirement for all players, wether they purchased the game on Steam or not, from someone in authority at 1C or Maddox Games. Clearly UBI had nothing to do with this.
Steam prevents reselling your game which is certainly something Ubi likes to see; they've made sure that is the case for all of their recent PC titles (mostly through their own DRM system). So it's quite possible that this is also a factor for them.

Some official clarification would be welcome, but if it's part of the contracts then I doubt we'll get an answer.
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  #185  
Old 03-14-2011, 12:06 AM
Luftrofl Luftrofl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElAurens View Post
1. There is no such thing as an unbiased poll.

2. Read my post for comprehension next time.

Where did I say Oleg should not sell the game on Steam? I did not say that, in fact I have said it would be good for the sim.

What I am asking is why the draconian requirement to have a Steam account to use the software even if you did not buy it from Steam.

Can you understand the difference?

Lots of titles are marketed on Steam and through traditional outlets and they do not require a Steam account for those that do not buy the Steam version. Why should Cliffs of Dover be any different?

It's about choice and freedom in the market place.
1. The poll is about as unbiased as you can get. Just because it didn't turn out the way you would have liked doesn't mean you can write it off.

2. Wait for Oleg to say why it's being required. For all we know Steam may have offered him money for doing this.

3. You don't seem to know what draconian really means.

To the other guy- PC games have crap for resale value and anyone who objects to digital download on those grounds is pretty dense.

I can understand people having questions and wanting to hear from Oleg but come on the horse is dead. It's been established the program is safe and will not prevent anyone from playing offline. You will not find out the exact reason why it's required until he finally gets around to answering it. Frankly they have done a crap job of keeping everyone up to date about it. Between posting info about Steam/release date and posting a few screenshots/boring video, one would think the choice is clear.

Last edited by Luftrofl; 03-14-2011 at 12:38 AM.
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  #186  
Old 03-14-2011, 12:40 AM
lwlooz lwlooz is offline
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Hello,

First off , thanks for making IL2 . Had much fun with it in the past.
As for this new game:

From what I can gather you are not selling Il2 over the Steam Distribution Platform just yet.
So you are using Steamworks(which apparently needs a the same Steam account as for the Distribution anyways. I question the fair competition prospect of that. See EU/Microsoft browser case)
I have three questions regarding this.

1. As an IL2-Player, what are exactly the benefits for me from this?
Steamworks
Steamworks API

I have never had the desire for any of this in IL2 nor can I see needing any of this in the future.

2. As this appears to be largely optional as the DRM is handled by a seperate system , will I in the future be able to buy this game without Steamworks off a different digital distribution company like GamersGate ?
(My personal choice for buying digital if I would , I hope you can accept that as I can accept you loving Steam , not sure if Steamworks is on there)

3. If you include Steamworks , what role does UBI play exactly?
Unless they ship physical copies without this , I can't see why you can't drop them as middleman completly. Which makes me question why they would even do this.

Thanks for any information and I apologize if I got something about Steamworks wrong , even tho I tried to read into it somewhat before.

Last edited by lwlooz; 03-14-2011 at 12:44 AM.
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  #187  
Old 03-14-2011, 01:12 AM
Gimpymoo Gimpymoo is offline
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Steam is great.

Hundreds of games in my library.

Discs are for old people who dont have an internet connection.
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  #188  
Old 03-14-2011, 02:24 AM
Blackdog_kt Blackdog_kt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JG52Uther View Post
And while everyone is so over the moon with steam,lets hope we don't end up with EA games system!
From the destructoid forums,not directly linking 'cos of the swearing

If you ever needed more evidence of how ludicrously some publishers treat PC players, you can stop your search right here. A gamer was recently punished for using "bad language" on BioWare's forums with a ban from Dragon Age II. Yep, if you screw up on a message board, EA can stop you from playing legally purchased, offline games.

The ban was for referring to EA as a "devil", which netted the user a 72-hour suspension. During that period, he was unable to play Dragon Age II because he needed his suspended account in order to activate it. BioWare's only response was to copy and paste the terms and services of its forums, basically in order to say "not our problem."

Electronic Arts, however, has since revoked the ban -- likely due to a lot of outraged gamer backlash -- and has claimed the suspension from the game was a "mistake." Apparently he was only supposed to be suspended from the forum, but got locked out of everything that requires an EA account.

Yet further proof that EA doesn't know what the **** it's doing with its stupid EA account nonsense. Still, nice to know that such clueless chimps can essentially hold your games to ransom.
This is exactly the kind of stuff that worries me with online distribution platforms. If i have some kind of technical issue, post on their forums or raise a fuss about it, could i be held hostage in a similar manner?

In the case of CoD, does anyone know if the Steam forum account is separate from the game account?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ElAurens View Post
zauii, you are reading something into my statement that I am not implying.

Why so defensive about Steam? It's not your country, or your family, it's a game downloading service.

Did you miss where I said that selling CoD on Steam was OK and probably a good thing?

Once again I will lay it out for you as plainly as I can...

Selling Cliffs of Dover on STEAM is a good thing for the sim. Making those of us who purchase it through other means have STEAM on our computers is not a good thing.

As I said, other developers and publishers market on Steam and also through traditional outlets, and they do not require those that buy the product from a source other than Steam to have a Steam account to play. And guess what, that makes eveyone happy.

Why should Cliffs of Dover be any different?

When my group of friends get together to play ArmA II online, some of us have the Steam version and other the non-Steam version. We play the sim, have a very good time and everyone is happy.

What is wrong with that?
Exactly.

All we are saying is give us a choice and all the rest of you keep saying is "it's not that bad, give it a chance, it's just misconceptions and bad luck, etc etc", which totally sidesteps what the real issue is and as such doesn't constitute a valid answer.

I'll try to explain it once more: i don't think Steam is good or bad, because i don't have an opinion about it. I want to keep it that way and not have to deal with it, because it's been proven already by official sources that it's neither a necessity nor a developer choice.

Want to sell/buy the game on Steam? It's fine by me, just leave me out of it. But guess what...you can't do it yet either!

I just don't see why some of you are so keen on supporting a situation where nobody gets what they want, when it would be perfectly possible to have options that cater to almost everyone. And yes, almost 20% of lost sales is not a majority but it's not trivial either.
You're right when they say they will buy it...they will evenually, 3 months later when it's going for $20. How is that any good for Oleg's team?

If anyone can answer this please go ahead. I don't want a lecture on what steam is or how it helps indy developers or how you like it, good for you if you do, i want an answer on this very simple question: isn't it better to sell both through steam and outside of it, so that everyone gets what they want and we don't have people boycotting the game or waiting until the price drops?

It's a very simple question so let's not beat around the bush any longer. If i can't get an equally simple and clear answer, i'll just chalk it up to the fact that there isn't one that both suits the "mandatory steam" viewpoint and is reasonable at the same time. Enough arguing over semantics, let's get to the meat of the matter
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  #189  
Old 03-14-2011, 04:36 AM
Mauloch Mauloch is offline
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I dislike a thief or cheat. I've had too many on-line gamming experiences ruined by them over the years to not want someone to devise a system that fights against it. If this helps to reduce the number of abusers, then I'm all for it.
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  #190  
Old 03-14-2011, 05:32 AM
zauii zauii is offline
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One of the global advantages will obviously be VAC, while i think the simulation genre is quite spared from cheaters they sure exist even amongst the niche within the niche.

Personally tho I'd prefer Punkbuster, but i've nothing against VAC.. when combined with administration of dedicated servers it works just fine but without it PB wins quite
clearly due to the delayed account bans that Vac issue. Modern Warfare 2 was an obvious demonstration how crippled the system was without human intervention.

Last edited by zauii; 03-14-2011 at 05:34 AM.
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