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Pilot's Lounge Members meetup

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  #21  
Old 04-20-2012, 08:13 PM
Strike Strike is offline
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Well on the OP I must say as a currently servicing, the only way you can train to fire a weapon effectively in combat, is by firing a real weapon. It's all about what you do at the firing range, anything prior to your first rounds down range is pure speculation. Most of the value of training is the consistency, and automation. You raise the weapon to firing position, you aim the sights, off the safety and start putting rounds at target. After doing this repeatedly over a long time, it becomes natural, just like riding a bike.

When you then "panic" in a stressed situation, this natural procedure has dug so deep you go on "autopilot". Your training is what saves you from your self, always. Stop thinking? No problem, it's in you from training. Do as you've learnt.

Violent game studies are contradicting these days;

One study will say it encourages violence and removes empathy and disconnects people from reality and consequences.

Another study will say it lets people vent their rage at a game, rather than society. It's healthy to rage once in a while, so it doesn't build up inside.


When it comes to Breivik though, I can't help but have mixed feelings.

At one hand, he is a genious in some ways. He pulled off a seemingly impossible task, acheiving his personal goals in some ways. He communicates dynamically with the judges and acts like it's all a game. He is by no means stupid in my eyes. So yes, I do find the whole trial process fascinating.

BUT:

The other hand says this guy's actions were unspeakably horrible and by no means is there any way on earth to justify his actions, no matter what the cause. I strongly feel disgusted and sick when thinking about what he has done, how many lives are destroyed. He admits that his actions are unspeakable and he metaphorically talked about a "voice" telling him "don't do it", but I think it's only a hopeless tactic that would maybe cause people to think differently of him. It's not going to work, ever. I wish with every atom in my body that his actions last summer never took place. Nobody deserves that, no matter the cause.

By saying the trial thats going on now is fascinating, I don't support him, or his meanings or actions by any means. It's just; you gotta wonder how, why and what kind of person does this stuff.
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  #22  
Old 04-20-2012, 08:21 PM
Kupsised Kupsised is offline
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Originally Posted by Mysticpuma View Post
Strange really because in the UK the reporter's just minutes after the trial had closed for the day (on different channels too) said the game he had played was (quote):

" He took a sabbatical of (x months) to play a Warcraft game to hone his skills, "World of Warcraft" that was the game two stations quoted.

This-morning in one of the newspapers I read it said the game was Call of Duty Modern Warfare and they illustrated the article with an image from MW2 where the terrorists shoot people in the airport.

I think it makes more 'news' sense to show 'real' gun footage of MW2 than an Elf in WoW?

Maybe I am just cynical?

MP
There was a BBC video on the BBC website this morning showning a bit of footage from the court (it seemed where either the defence or the jury were questioning the prosecution and their reasoning for bringing up video games) and World of Warcraft was specifically mentioned there as a direct translation from the court proceedings. As you say, I think it might just be because it's too easy to blame Call of Duty, especially since a lot of people are aware already of the controversy that particular part of Modern Warfare caused.

Anyway, whoever that it was that was questioning what I understood to be the prosecution asked why they had used his video game habits in evidence, and they said they couldn't say anything more than they have already because it might lead the jury to a forgone conclusion (or something to that effect) when the case was not over yet. I suppose, rather than taking a lot of time to explain to the average viewer/reader/listener how WoW is (or isn't) related to the case, it's much easier to replace it with Call of Duty since that's something that everyone already understands I suppose. Like you say, could be cynacism, but on the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't.
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  #23  
Old 04-20-2012, 09:44 PM
Thee_oddball Thee_oddball is offline
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Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post
A death sentence would make him a martyr, in his and his associates eyes, as his belief he had a just cause.
Not wanting to go OT (or into a sensitive area), but, the supposed "Clash of Civilisations" is something to keep in mind here. There's only one thing left really, which can both galvanise and polarise the masses on a world wide basis, and that is religion.
its not "supposed" there is a clash and even Merkel had to admit that and I get the feeling that Breivik is the extreme!! embodiment of a growing anti-immigrant sentiment in Europe but one thing is for sure...the guy is a sociopath...you can NOT murder that many people and be ok with it...he is the type the SS sought during WW2.

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  #24  
Old 04-21-2012, 03:02 AM
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CWMV CWMV is offline
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Well honestly I understand the anti immigration feeling.
I'm not subject to the muslim horde that you Europeans are dealing with, but we have our own issues in California.

It really makes you wonder if its right to allow people to come to your country, and then wath as they refuse to assimilate, even to the point of refusing to speak English (in our case).

Me-*knocks on door* "Hello! I have a Package for Jose Garcia!"
Occupant-*Opens door, puzzled look on face* "Que?"
Me-"Good morning Sir! I have a package for Jose Garcia, I just need your signature before I can givehand it over."
Occupant-"habla espanol?"
Me-...No.
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  #25  
Old 04-21-2012, 03:27 AM
Wolf_Rider Wolf_Rider is offline
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@ Thee Odball

Sociopath might be any easy label, but his testimonies etc indicate that he does have a social conscience - the very reason he did what did (according to him) was, in his view, to protect society.





Kupsised

"He said he played online fantasy role-playing game World of Warcraft as well as shooting simulation Call of Duty, which he said helped to hone his strategies for what he believed would be a suicide mission.

"Some people dream about sailing around the world, some dream of playing golf. I dreamt of playing World of Warcraft," he told the court.

He insisted the game was a social, not very violent strategy game, which was "pure entertainment [and] has nothing to do with July 22".

Breivik said he played Call of Duty: Modern Warfare as actual training for the shooting spree.

"It is a war simulator. It gives you an impression of how target systems work," he explained, adding he used it to practice "shooting other people".

"The plan was to not surrender before the whole plan had been carried out," he told the court.

"It was a suicide mission where the probability of survival was equal to zero."

On the day of the attacks last July he arrived in Oslo's city centre and was surprised life did not imitate art.

He told the court: "I expected three or four officers to come out and get me".

But Utoeya survivor Tore Bekkedal says linking war games addiction to acts of terrorism is a knee-jerk reaction.

"I've played the same violent video games and I don't go round bloody shooting kids. I mean half the people in Utoeya played the same games," he said.
"



read more -> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-1...-utoya/3961532



Perhaps the video game association was shot down by comments from one of the survivors?
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Last edited by Wolf_Rider; 04-21-2012 at 03:44 AM.
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  #26  
Old 04-21-2012, 08:48 AM
Kupsised Kupsised is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post
@ Thee Odball

Sociopath might be any easy label, but his testimonies etc indicate that he does have a social conscience - the very reason he did what did (according to him) was, in his view, to protect society.





Kupsised

"He said he played online fantasy role-playing game World of Warcraft as well as shooting simulation Call of Duty, which he said helped to hone his strategies for what he believed would be a suicide mission.

"Some people dream about sailing around the world, some dream of playing golf. I dreamt of playing World of Warcraft," he told the court.

He insisted the game was a social, not very violent strategy game, which was "pure entertainment [and] has nothing to do with July 22".

Breivik said he played Call of Duty: Modern Warfare as actual training for the shooting spree.

"It is a war simulator. It gives you an impression of how target systems work," he explained, adding he used it to practice "shooting other people".

"The plan was to not surrender before the whole plan had been carried out," he told the court.

"It was a suicide mission where the probability of survival was equal to zero."

On the day of the attacks last July he arrived in Oslo's city centre and was surprised life did not imitate art.

He told the court: "I expected three or four officers to come out and get me".

But Utoeya survivor Tore Bekkedal says linking war games addiction to acts of terrorism is a knee-jerk reaction.

"I've played the same violent video games and I don't go round bloody shooting kids. I mean half the people in Utoeya played the same games," he said.
"



read more -> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-1...-utoya/3961532



Perhaps the video game association was shot down by comments from one of the survivors?
I tried to find the video I'd seen but can't seem to get it any more. Unfortunately, when there's developing news on the BBC they chop and change the contents and titles of articles so it's near impossible to find again. Couldn't find it in my history either. Either way, I don't think it was from that exact passage you quoted, since Breivik himself wasn't there, it seemed to be that they were only questioning the prosecution as to why they deemed that necessary information and as far as I remember it, only WoW was mentioned. If that's the actual court transcript from when Breivik was in court though, that'd make sense why all the papers had jumped on CoD.
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  #27  
Old 04-21-2012, 10:23 AM
Wolf_Rider Wolf_Rider is offline
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The quote is from an article in one of the local newspapers down here and, when it comes to what goes on in a court room, can only quote what was said. They can't give what they thought was said, for example, for penalty of interfering with due process. (I forget the exact term)
The Breivik statements quoted in the article, would be what he said and the survivor comments are unclear as to where they came from -testimony/ interview?.
Needless to say, the defence has something from one of the witness which they could possibly use.

I'm curious to see your video
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  #28  
Old 04-21-2012, 11:57 AM
Strike Strike is offline
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I think the Norwegian comic artist Lise kindof explains this perfcectly in her comic strip:

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  #29  
Old 04-21-2012, 12:51 PM
Kupsised Kupsised is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider View Post
The quote is from an article in one of the local newspapers down here and, when it comes to what goes on in a court room, can only quote what was said. They can't give what they thought was said, for example, for penalty of interfering with due process. (I forget the exact term)
The Breivik statements quoted in the article, would be what he said and the survivor comments are unclear as to where they came from -testimony/ interview?.
Needless to say, the defence has something from one of the witness which they could possibly use.

I'm curious to see your video
I'm curious to see my video too I can't find it any more unfortunately, which is seriously starting to bug me. I definately saw it on the BBC yesterday morning, but can't find it any more. It may have even been live proceedings or something, since I literally can't find it anywhere and translation was being done by one woman on the fly, or at least it seemed that way. What I meant in that last post though was that you are probably right, since in the video I had it may have only been them summarising what was said and therefore they only mentioned WoW and not CoD.
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  #30  
Old 04-21-2012, 01:58 PM
Geronimo989 Geronimo989 is offline
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Originally Posted by Thee_oddball View Post
he is the type the SS sought during WW2.
I dont think he would be accepted in a SS combat unit. They were searching for physically fit young men willing to fight and die for their ideals, and I don't think Breivik was so willing to fight and die for his, being that he surrendered as soon as the police arrived.
And what kind of a joke is the Norwegian police? I read that they do not regulary carry guns...
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