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King's Bounty: Armored Princess Sequel to the critically acclaimed King’s Bounty: The Legend.

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  #11  
Old 11-19-2009, 10:45 AM
DGDobrev DGDobrev is offline
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You are right about the positive and negative effects and the presence of certain units.

However, if there are demons, undead and humans in an AI army, the humans have -2 morale, but in the end, it is not calculated and all their stats are as they should be. That is what I meant. I guess it needs clarification.

BTW, when you guys see I'm not done writing, please don't rush into conclusions... I got used to saving my work from time to time in order to preserve it from random PC blocks, power outages and such

EDIT: Fixed and clarified.

Last edited by DGDobrev; 11-19-2009 at 10:52 AM.
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  #12  
Old 11-20-2009, 09:47 PM
DGDobrev DGDobrev is offline
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DOUBLE POST ALERT!

But this is important. I see that the Trapper medal in the english version of KBAP now says "Without any regard to kind" - pretty crappy translation, but I suppose this means disregarding unit type at battle start (existing or summoned). I'll try to confirm this sometime soon from the Russian version (Russian version added to the counter only when a pre-existing monster was killed by the trap, disregarding the summoned ones), but if this is changed, Call of Nature + Trap spell will be a wicked exploit.
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  #13  
Old 11-24-2009, 08:07 AM
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Nike-it Nike-it is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infiltrator View Post
DGDobrev, is there any place I can look for a complete item listing of the game?
You can see them all in the Russian Manual here: http://files.games.1c.ru/kingsbounty...ht_1.2.0.1.zip
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  #14  
Old 11-29-2009, 12:26 AM
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Metathron Metathron is offline
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Re: Jim Crowd (aka Scarface)

DGD says after giving him the potion, he will gain new abilities and his slots will be different. Well, the ability is +700 leadership, which is definitely a nice boost; as for the slots, I have not noticed them change, as after drinking the potion all of his items were thrown back into Amelie's backpack, but I just put them right back where they were.
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  #15  
Old 11-29-2009, 12:36 AM
DGDobrev DGDobrev is offline
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The 4th slot changes - from artifact/regalia it transforms to artifact only. So in general, if you need more regalia slots, giving him the potion isn't such a good idea.
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  #16  
Old 12-01-2009, 11:25 PM
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Pulled from Russian Manual, and reformatted. I have posted thread in Other forum for discussing this specifically:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=11467

Crushing Blow

Basic:
Damage: 90-100 Rage: 4 Experience: 3 Pushback: 1

Damage 1 Upgrade: Damage: 130-150, Rage: +1, Experience: 5
Damage 2 Upgrade: Damage: 200-300, Rage: +2, Experience: 8
Damage 3 Upgrade: Damage: 400-500, Rage: +3, Experience: 13, Pushback: 2
Damage 4 Upgrade: Damage: 800-900, Rage: +4, Exp: 19 (Requires Level 10)
Damage 5 Upgrade: Damage: 1300-1400, Rage: 5, Experience: 26 (Requires Level 14)
Damage 6 Upgrade: Damage: 1900-2000, Rage: 6, Exp: 34, Pushback: 3 Rest: +1 (Requires Level 18 )
Rage 1 Upgrade: Rage: -5 (Requires Costs rage> 18 )
Rest 1 Upgrade: Rest: -1 (Requires Rest > 1)

Hunt

Basic
Chest: 1 Altar: 0 Rage: 4 Exp: 5 Rest: 1 (Requires level 2)

Treasure 1 Upgrade: Chest: 2 Altar: 0 Rage: +2 Experience: 8
Treasure 2 Upgrade: Chest: 2 Altar: 1 Rage: +3 Experience: 12
Treasure 3 Upgrade: Chest: 3 Altar: 2 Rage: +4 Experience: 17
Rage 1 Upgrade: Rage: -5 (Requires Rage Cost > 9)

Ball Lightning

Basic
Damage: 10-15%, chance of shock: 20%, Rage: 15, Experience: 10, Rest: 1 (Requires Level 9)

Damage 1 Upgrade: Damage: + [0-5]%, chance of shock: +2%, Rage: +2, Experience: +4
Damage 2 Upgrade: Damage: + [0-7]%, chance of shock: +2%, Rage: +3, Experience: +6
Damage 3 Upgrade: Damage: + [10-15]%, chance of shock: +2%, Rage: +5, Experience: +8 Rest: 2 (Requires Level 26)
Shock 1 Upgrade: Damage: + [0-2]%, chance of shock: +6%, Rage: +2, Experience: +4
Shock 2 Upgrade: Damage: + [0-2]%, chance of shock: +8%, Rage: +3, Experience: +6
Shock 3 Upgrade: Damage: + [0-2]%, chance of shock: +10% Rage: +5, Experience: +8 (Requires Level 21)

Mana Accelerator

Basic
Mana: 7 Action Points: 1 Rage: 8 Exp: 10 Rest: 1 (Requires Level 6)

Mana 1 Upgrade: Mana: 10, Rage: +3, Experience: +2
Mana 2 Upgrade: Mana: 14, Rage: +5, Experience: +3
Mana 3 Upgrade: Mana: 19, Rage: +7, Experience: +4 (Requires Level 18 )
Mana 4 Upgrade: Mana: 25, Rage: +9, Exp: +5 (Requires Level 23 )
Action Points 1 Upgrade: AP: 2, Rage: +3, Experience: +5
Rage 1 Upgrade: Rage: -10 (Requires Rage Cost > 25)

Mystic Egg

Basic
Leadership: 100 +50% of Hero, Troop Level: 1-2, Rage: 15, Experience: 10 Rest: 2 (Requires Level 4)

Leadership 1 Upgrade: Leadership: 300, Rage: +3, Experience: +2
Leadership 2 Upgrade: Leadership: 700, Rage: +4, Experience: +3
Leadership 3 Upgrade: Leadership: 1300, Rage: +5, Experience: +4 (Requires Level 16)
Hero Percent 1 Upgrade: Leadership of Hero: 70%, Rage: +5 Experience: +3 (Requires Level 9)
Hero Percent 2 Upgrade: Leadership of Hero: 90%, Rage: +7 Experience: +4 (Requires Level 13)
Creatures 1 Upgrade: Level of Creatures: 1-4, Rage: +2, Experience: +3
Creatures 2 Upgrade: Level of Creatures: 2-5, Rage: +3, Exp: +4 (Requires Level 16)

Wall of Stone

Basic
Health: 150, Defense: 20, Rage: 6, Exp: 7, Rest: 2 (Requires Level 2)

Health 1 Upgrade: Health: 250, Rage: +1, Experience: +2
Health 2 Upgrade: Health: 500, Rage: +2, Experience: +3 ( Requires Level 11)
Health 3 Upgrade: Health: 1000, Rage: +3, Experience: +4( Requires Level 14)
Health 4 Upgrade: Health: 2000, Rage: +4, Experience: +5 ( Requires Level 17)
Health 5 Upgrade: Health: 5000, Rage: +5, Experience: +6 (Requires Level 23)
Defense 1 Upgrade: Defense: 30, Rage: +2, Experience: +3
Defense 2 Upgrade: Defense: 40, Rage: +3, Experience: +4 (Requires Level 13 )
Defense 3 Upgrade: Defense: 50, Rage: +4, Experience: +5 (Requires Level 18 )

Dragon Dive

Basic
Damage: 300-600 Rage: 20 Experience: 10 Rest: 1 (Requires Level 12)

Damage 1 Upgrade: Damage: 600-900, Rage: +9, Experience: 13
Damage 2 Upgrade: Damage: 900-1300, Rage: +10, Experience: 17 (Requires Level 21)
Damage 3 Upgrade: Damage: 1300-1700, Rage: +11, Experience: 22 (Requires Level 26)
Damage 4 Upgrade: Damage: 1900-2400 Rage: +12 Experience: 28 Rest: +1
Rage 1 Upgrade: Rage: -10 (Requires Rage Cost > 35)
Rest 1 Upgrade: Rest: -1 (Requires Rest > 1)

Fiery Phantoms

Basic
Damage: 1600-1900: (Allies take 80%), Rage: 50, Experience: 10, Rest: 1 (Requires Level 25 )

Damage 1 Upgrade: Damage: 1900-2300, Rage: +10, Experience: +3
Damage 2 Upgrade: Damage: 2300-2700, Rage: +10, Experience: +4, Rest: +1 (Requires Lvl 31)
Damage 3 Upgrade: Damage: 2700-3300, Rage: +10, Experience: +5, Rest: +1 (Requires Level 36)
Damage 4 Upgrade: Damage: 3000-3700, Rage: +10, Experience: +6, Rest: +1 (Requires Level 41)
Rollback 1 Upgrade: Damage to Allies: 60%, Experience: +2 Rest: -1 (Requires Rest > 1)
Rollback 2 Upgrade: Damage to Allies: 40%, Experience: +3 Rest: -1
(Requires Rest > 1)
Rollback 3 Upgrade: Damage to Allies: 20%, Experience: +4 Rest: -1(Requires Rest > 1)
Rage 1 Upgrade: Rage: -10 (Requires Rage Cost > 50)

Call Lava

Basic
Damage: 1000-1200, Targets: 3, Rage: 35, Experience: 10, Rest: 2 (Requires Level 17)

Damage 1 Upgrade: Damage: 1300-1500, Rage: +5 Experience: +2
Damage 2 Upgrade: Damage: 1800-2000, Rage: +6 Experience: +3 (Requires level 26)
Damage 3 Upgrade: Damage: 2300-2600, Rage: +7 Experience: +4 (Requires Level 31)
Damage 4 Upgrade: Damage: 2900-3200, Rage: +8 Experience: +5 (Requires Level 36)
Damage 5 Upgrade: Damage: 3600-3800, Rage: +9, Exp: +6, Rest: 3 (Requires Level 41)
Targets 1 Upgrade: Targets: 4, Rage: +8, Exp: +1
Targets 2 Upgrade: Targets : 5 Rage: +7 Experience: +2
Targets 3 Upgrade: Targets : 6 Rage: +6 Exp: +3
Targets 4 Upgrade: Targets : 7 Rage: +5 Experience: +4
Rage 1 Upgrade: Rage: -10 (Requires Rage Cost > 60)
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  #17  
Old 12-02-2009, 01:20 AM
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Zechnophobe Zechnophobe is offline
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A bit more specifics: Each point of Attack Greater than defenses causes 3.33% more damage (10 thirds to be exact). This means that if you have 15 Attack more than the targets defense, you will do 50% more damage (15 * 3.33 = 50).

For each point of defense greater than Attack, the unit will take less damage by 100/(100+3.33*DIFF), which is similar but different. This means if you have 15 defense greater than the attack you will take 100/150 = 66.7% of the damage, or 33.3% less.

Both of these calculations max out at 60 difference. At 60 greater attack you will do 300% of base damage (three times normal damage) and at 60 greater defense you will take 33% of normal damage (67% less than normal).

This is also taken from the manual. The next bit is something I have inferred based on logic.

Damage from crits is 150% of maximum damage, but how effective is +crit items and effects?

Edit: The below logic is horribly flawed. This is because Your total damage is: Base * Bonus from Attack * Bonus from Crit, whereas my logic below was assuming something like Base *(Bonus from Attack + Bonus from Crit).

Because of the above, it is MUCH more important to have a high crit chance, as it will multiply with your existing damage bonus from attack (High attack also increases average crit damage).


Consider that each unit has an average damage. For instance, a unit that deals 1-2 damage with each hit will have an average damage of 1.5. Each unit also then has a Crit Damage, 150% of the max. In this case, that damage is 3 (150% of 2). That means that a crit by this unit increases the average damage by 100% (from 1.5 to 3). The Raw bonus value of the crit is an average of 1.5 more damage. (3 from the crit - 1.5 from the base). This is the additional damage you did.

If we take the raw bonus value, we can then compare it to the crit percentage of a unit to determine the average effect of crit percentage. For instance, in our example, a 15% crit percent is 15% of 1.5, or .225 additional damage on average. To be more exact in this case.

Why would you want to know this? Well, for starters so you can figure out whether a bonus to ATK is better than a bonus to Crit %.

On our mythical unit with 1-2 damage, the crit% bonus is equal to a damage% bonus (Since the raw bonus damage = average damage). This means that 1 point of ATK bonus is equal to 3.33% crit.

However my example is far from typical! Let's look at a popular Unit, the Paladin.

Paladin does 16-20 damage. His average damage is 18,and his crit damage is 30, so he does 12 additional points of damage on a crit.

3.33% of 18 = .6 . This is the amount of additional damage Paladin does for each point of ATK he has greater than the targets.
.6 is 5% of 12. That means +5% crit chance = 1 point of attack.

Higher level units tend to have less variable damages, like the paladin, and therefore will have a better investment in attack than crit percentage.

Some units however benefit significantly more. For instance Polar Bears:

12-22 damage, average of 17, crit of 33.
3.33% of 17 = .567 damage per point of Attack.
.567 is 3.6% of 16(33-17) so each 3.6% of crit = 1 point of attack.


There is one last VERY important thing to consider, especially for warriors: Attack points max out. Black Dragons alone have 70 attack, meaning they are going to inflict maximum damage to units with 10 or lower Defense. A Hero may even have skills increases the attack of that dragon even higher (A warrior would be caught dead with less than 15 attack) meaning he will be doing max damage against a wide array of opponents! Since there is no point going over the 300% damage cap, you can STILL do crits more often to make this damage more impressive.


So my thoughts for today: A warrior should likely do best by putting points into Crit abilities and gear later on in the game, instead of more attack, especially when fighting non hero's. My Warrior game I played recently, that used Voice of the Dragon, and Dragon's was probably doing about close to maximum possible damage with every attack because of this (Maxed out 300% damage, and around 50% crit... 95% crit to undead and demons due to my Boy Toy).


I am loving this Russian manual!

Last edited by Zechnophobe; 02-05-2010 at 06:40 AM.
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  #18  
Old 12-03-2009, 05:08 PM
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Zechnophobe Zechnophobe is offline
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One more thought, this time on Morale.

The benefits of Morale are two fold:

1) Increases the base stats of a unit by X%

2) Increases the current crit% of a unit by Y%

This means it effects units very differently. A Level one unit like a lake fairy will get little benefit from a bonus to their base stats, as their base stats are so incredibly low. A point of attack or defense makes little difference.

However, the crit% increase is based off of a current value, and crit chance is a multiplier with total damage Dealt (Which I incorrectly eluded to before). That means that with low level units especially, you will want to combine +crit% items and abilities with +morale ones, if possible. A unit with 50% current crit, who gets 3 Morale, will have that increase by another 15%. For a unit like a Sprite that does 1-3 damage, and has a huge boost from criting, and very little boost from Attack, the combo is noticably more effective.

Also on the flip side, low morale is more of a penalty to higher level units, or high crit chance units, and negative morale comes from 'negative effects' on a unit.

This means that just stacking on ANY random bad effect will cause units to take significantly more damage. A Phoenix lighting three stacks on fire will actually greatly decrease those stacks' combat effectiveness. A Helplessness spell at level 3 will not only decrease defense by 60%, but will also grant another -20% from the negative morale. A 63 defense Red Dragon drops down to 12 defense, increasing the damage it takes by potentially to 269% of normal!
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  #19  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:35 PM
Granamyr Granamyr is offline
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Zech, you make some great points.

I largely changed my strategy away from boosting attack toward focusing on criticals as a result of what you've posted. There is a small detail though that has me wavering though.....critical % is exactly that, a % so you're having to depend on "the odds". I'm of the opinion that the sure thing is a better option even if dmg ceiling is lower than if you were to roll the dice.

Knowing that you'll always do 3x the damage even if there are a few times when those extra Attack points are overkill (and thus wasted) seems like a better plan than upping critical %....even late in the game. Yes, late in the game you're going to have absurdly high attack on your units but you're also fighting plenty of high level units with high defense or heroes with absurdly high defense. I'd rather depend on 3x damage than hoping I critical enough to take something out.

The other variable is that usually the best way to raise crit % is via items and those are usually race or individually troop based. I ran into this when deciding if I should replace Banner of Faith with something else. The added crit % to Paladins seemed so appealing that I've never replaced it but in practice, my Paladins rarely ever attack. I would have benefited much more by having a +Atk regalia all this time. Also consider those units in which you regularly use their abilities, (which don't trigger criticals, like elves. My archers have huge critical %'s but that gets wasted at least half the time with elves because I use their double arrow ability (which would benefit from higher attack) first.

I don't want to derail an informative thread into an Attack vs Critial% debate. My point is, I think it's best to take the regular sure thing over the situational roll of the dice.
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  #20  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:57 PM
DGDobrev DGDobrev is offline
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I agree with that point. Having higher damage output is better than having a high crit in some cases. Critical is 1.5x the max unit damage, which in some cases may be surpassed by a decent attack value of your troop.

However, it still depends on the army setup, hero class and enemy army composition. Against armies of tough lvl 3-5 units, critical may be better, because you simply won't be able to get to that 3x attack due to the strong defense of your opponent's units. Against armies with low defense, going for 3x attack is much better.

In the end, the ability of being flexible in various situations is the key. You may utilize both tactics if you have the proper items
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