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Old 06-04-2017, 01:23 AM
dannnyjos dannnyjos is offline
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Question 1946 p4.13.3

So, I moved from IL2 AEP/PF to IL2:1946 (Patch 4.13.3) a few days ago and I’m having a hard time understanding the flight modeling now.
On the Quick Mission Builder I picked a BF109 G2 and went against a Spitfire 1943 (can’t remember the variant) on Average skill setting and tried doing booming & zooming to no avail.
The Spit caught up with me at the top of my zoom and blew me to pieces every single time.
After 5 tries or so I flew against the same plane on a BF109 K variant and got the same result.
I also tried with a FW-190-D and got the same result. Finally, I even tried it with a Ta-152 and still got the same result.
Then I said “the hell with it” and got into the 109-G2 again and got into a turning fight and managed to out-turn the Spit and shoot him down.
What gives? I figured I’m either doing something wrong or the AI is simply cheating.
Boom & Zoom worked perfectly fine against all 1943 Spitfires in IL2 AEP/PF when using German 109s and FWs.

Any thoughts?

Last edited by KG26_Alpha; 06-04-2017 at 08:04 PM. Reason: Punctuated for easier reading.
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Old 06-04-2017, 08:10 PM
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KG26_Alpha KG26_Alpha is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannnyjos View Post
So, I moved from IL2 AEP/PF to IL2:1946 (Patch 4.13.3) a few days ago and I’m having a hard time understanding the flight modeling now.
On the Quick Mission Builder I picked a BF109 G2 and went against a Spitfire 1943 (can’t remember the variant) on Average skill setting and tried doing booming & zooming to no avail.
The Spit caught up with me at the top of my zoom and blew me to pieces every single time.
After 5 tries or so I flew against the same plane on a BF109 K variant and got the same result.
I also tried with a FW-190-D and got the same result. Finally, I even tried it with a Ta-152 and still got the same result.
Then I said “the hell with it” and got into the 109-G2 again and got into a turning fight and managed to out-turn the Spit and shoot him down.
What gives? I figured I’m either doing something wrong or the AI is simply cheating.
Boom & Zoom worked perfectly fine against all 1943 Spitfires in IL2 AEP/PF when using German 109s and FWs.

Any thoughts?
From the v4.11 read me :

AI improvements
AI routines in 4.11 have been modified extensively in order to introduce several limitations
that human pilot would experience. Below is a list of things player can expect to see in 4.11:
4 / 22
Various new AI maneuvers have been added. Number of maneuvers is increased by 25%.
AI planes will no longer detect enemy planes automatically inside certain radius. Position and
size of enemy plane is the main factor here. Bigger plane will obviously produce a bigger and
more visible "dot" and it will be more visible to AI.
AI skill will generally determine how well AI can spot targets. Also every gunner on board will
contribute to enemy spotting by covering their own sectors.
Generally pilots will keep looking more forwards than backwards. Occasionally fighters execute
fishtail maneuver to get better view behind. Planes will be less visible against dark background
like land, but more visible against brighter background like sky and clouds.
Clouds & land mass blocks AI's ability to see other planes behind them. For example it is
possible to evade attacking AI plane by hiding in clouds. AI planes will also try to hide in clouds
in certain conditions.
AI's own plane will block their line of sight. This is calculated from the plane's collision model.
For example basically all planes cannot see directly below them, unless the plane has
ventral/bottom gunner that can cover the underside. For example plane like Blenheim has
blind spot rear & behind since it has no tail/bottom gunner. Plane like B-17 with bottom/rear
gunners cannot be surprised from rear & behind like Blenheim (during daylight).
Occasionally fighters will execute roll maneuvers to get a look directly below them.
When fighter is pulling positive G's to get a lead shot and target goes invisible under nose, AI
will not see the target. Instead of aiming at the actual target, AI is shooting at estimated
target which position is extrapolated based on the last real observations. Much like human
brain would do.
AI pilot's ground collision detection is improved and now they will detect ground obstacles in
front of them better. Previously AI always crashed into certain kind of hill/mountain which has
too steep slope.
Environment factors such as darkness affects how well planes can be seen. AI is blind against
attack from sun and planes show up better as silhouette against moon. Planes are spotted
more easier if they emit smoke, fire, condensation trail or have lights on or are illuminated by
searchlight.
Also ships & ground AAA and aircraft gunners have the same clouds/ground/environment
restrictions as AI pilots.
AI gunners check before shooting that there is no friendly planes in front/behind their enemy
target.
AI gunners don't keep shooting while the gun is turning towards target and the target is
nowhere near when the bullets would go. So gunners will no longer waste ammo for stupid
shots.
Gunners will be less accurate shooting targets that move fast. In other words target that
forces the gunners to turn guns fast is less likely to get hit.
Gunners that experience too much positive or negative G's cannot fire at all.
AI plane's engine will overheat forcing AI to reduce throttle and open radiators.
AI planes respect diving limits of their planes.
Changes have been made in AI deflection shooting. AI calculate deflection better but it is still
5 / 22
not perfect. AI's ability to chose correct deflection and to hold steady aim vary with the skill. AI
Aces shooting ability is now at human aces level and if they get into your close six you will be
in trouble.
AI flights doesn't go into attack as soon as they spot the enemy anymore. Depending on the
situation AI might try to avoid fight or try to improve their position before commencing the
attack.
AI skills are now divided internally into sub-skills and thus provide finer distribution of skill.
Aces are still better than Veterans and Averages are better than Rookies but not all AI pilots
with the same skill are the same. Some fly better, some shoot better. Some are braver and
some see better. This makes their behavior less predictable.
In addition to the maneuvers, AI fighter defense is completely reworked, no more constant
rolls. AI will perform diverse maneuvers and provide bigger challenge to the player.
AI will make mistake too. They will stall and spin occasionally, panic and “freeze” and
sometimes they will even bail out before you fire a single bullet at them.
Note
If AI planes in player’s own flight have not noticed the enemy planes, player has possibility to
“point out” the enemy presence to the friendly AI planes by padlocking enemy plane so that it
is visible at roughly center of the screen (15 deg. cone). This works even if the padlock is not
enabled. Also the commands attack all/bombers/fighters has the same function built in as the
padlock key. So issuing “attack fighters” command to your wingman would fail if your wingman
has not seen the enemy and you give the command while you don’t see the enemy. Giving the
command when you see the enemy at the center of your screen (in cockpit) gives your
wingman the direction of the enemy and wingman can attack it. This prevents abusing the
attack commands like a radar.
The AI development is a continuous process we plan to refine further for 4.12. We would like
to ask you to report any odd AI behavior we may have not noticed during our beta testing. It
was not possible for us to test all AI situations / routines.
Checks concerning clouds are not working on dedicated server. DS doesn't know anything
about clouds and was never designed to have AI planes, but we will try to change this later.
Improved radiator & overheat modeling
4.11 introduces a more detailed and more accurate radiator model. It is different from the
previous model in many ways, the main differences being:
• radiator settings now have an impact on both water/cylinder and oil temperature
• outside temperature now has an impact on oil temperatures
• engine rpm has a bigger impact
• impact of WEP is dependent on extra power generated
• mixture setting has an impact
• the density of the air has an impact
• aircraft speed has a bigger impact
• there is no longer a fixed period after which damage occurs in case of overheat
• introducing a random chance for damage depending on how strongly the engine
overheats
6 / 22
• type of damage is depending on if it is water/cylinder or oil overheating
You will generally find that the planes overheat a lot more, in particular if you are not on a cold
map in fast level flight. As a guideline, on hotter maps you can expect fighters to be able to
sustain about 70% power at 70% pitch without overheating radiators closed, for bombers it is
somewhat more. The values in many cases are reasonably close to real life maximum
continuous settings (please don't go by cockpit gauges, they aren't always accurate).
If you start a low speed full power dogfight with a closed radiator, you can expect the engine
to overheat rapidly and to get damaged quickly. War emergency power settings should
therefore only be used in an emergency, otherwise your plane might get destroyed without
your enemy even firing a shot.
To keep engine temperatures low, remember:
• use low rpm (reduce pitch), in particular oil temperature are sensitive towards rpm
• use low throttle settings (and avoid WEP)
• open the radiator
• fly faster (don't climb at too low speeds)
• use an as rich mixture as possible
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Old 06-05-2017, 10:29 PM
dannnyjos dannnyjos is offline
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Thanks for the info regarding that patch. Now, do you recommend that I stay on 4.13.3 is there another patch that's more widely used by the IL2 community?

Cheers.
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Old 07-08-2017, 06:40 PM
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KG26_Alpha KG26_Alpha is offline
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Online

HSFX 7.03 (IL2 1946 v4.12.2)

Stock v4.13.4

Are the most common

Offline

Any version you like
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Old 07-17-2017, 04:35 PM
Jumoschwanz Jumoschwanz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannnyjos View Post
On the Quick Mission Builder I picked a BF109 G2 and went against a Spitfire 1943 (can’t remember the variant) on Average skill setting and tried doing booming & zooming to no avail.
The Spit caught up with me at the top of my zoom and blew me to pieces every single time. Any thoughts?

So, every patch is different. Should they let you tell them what changes to make in the flight models from now on so it is just as you like it? Is it supposed to be some sort of surprise that it changes from patch to patch, that is after all the definition of "new" isn't it that it has changes????

People have been crying about patches for IL2 for the last 16 years instead of simply learning about the changes and adjusting their tactics to suit.

I just did some B&Z in qmb in a 109g2 and had no problem zooming back up out of their reach several times before they naturally got closer and closer to my level, that is what they do. They certainly are not going to sit around at the same altitude and wait for you to pick them off.

If they are catching you on your first zoom back up then it is your fault because you did not start with enough altitude advantage or speed advantage.
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Old 07-22-2017, 11:58 PM
Pugo3 Pugo3 is offline
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Hello,

I just posted on another thread that it seems pertinent to your query as well. Not sure if this is the correct method, but here is the thread: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=229940

My input re experience with various factors impacting AI and flyable aircraft performance.

Perhaps this will be of some help.

p3
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