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Units, artifacts, spells and Pet Dragon Discussion, questions and solutions about units, artifacts, spells and Pet Dragon.

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  #1  
Old 12-30-2010, 10:35 PM
Kalenden Kalenden is offline
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I've reached the goblin island and have found a couple of unit stacks of only Ogres (between 60-90 Ogres ). They are listed as Strong, but that shouldn't be a problem since I'm on Normal, Paladin, Lvl 38, and can defeat such stacks.
Royal Thorns (I know they are bad, but I really like them), Paladins, Red Dragons, Rune Mages and Inquisitors.

The problem is, they just rip me apart. They are with enough that they can drain most of my units of their action points, preventing me from doing the usual summoning spree. After the drain they easily cross the entire section to my troops and take out a large percentage of the troop (10%-20%).

Tanking with the Red Dragons fails miserably, they just smash them to pieces (even with stone skin).

I'm doing a semi no losses run (meaning I don't like losses and try to prevent them but don't mind occasionally losing some), so I'd try to not have huge losses, but when the ogres reach my ranged lines everything just falls apart.
Any hints?
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  #2  
Old 12-30-2010, 11:28 PM
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Metathron Metathron is offline
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What class are you? If mage, take only black dragons and blast away at the ogres using fire arrow and poison skull.
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  #3  
Old 12-31-2010, 02:45 PM
ckdamascus ckdamascus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalenden View Post
I've reached the goblin island and have found a couple of unit stacks of only Ogres (between 60-90 Ogres ). They are listed as Strong, but that shouldn't be a problem since I'm on Normal, Paladin, Lvl 38, and can defeat such stacks.
Royal Thorns (I know they are bad, but I really like them), Paladins, Red Dragons, Rune Mages and Inquisitors.

The problem is, they just rip me apart. They are with enough that they can drain most of my units of their action points, preventing me from doing the usual summoning spree. After the drain they easily cross the entire section to my troops and take out a large percentage of the troop (10%-20%).

Tanking with the Red Dragons fails miserably, they just smash them to pieces (even with stone skin).

I'm doing a semi no losses run (meaning I don't like losses and try to prevent them but don't mind occasionally losing some), so I'd try to not have huge losses, but when the ogres reach my ranged lines everything just falls apart.
Any hints?
Stack Composition is typically more important than the raw leadership.

Ogres have had a few changes in Crossworlds which is what makes them surprisingly more difficult to deal with now.

Ogres are just deadly, since they have been "fixed" to truly drain AP away, meaning you lose a turn, while they gain a lot of movement.

You actually do NOT want to use any flying units you CARE about. Ogres in Crossworlds does 150% damage to flying units AND slows them down (ala Heavy Mace negative status).

Royal Thorns are fantastic, if you can keep them alive! Plus they provide tanks.

However, one thing to point out

All Orc units get muuuch stronger if you feed them stacks to kill. e.g. summon cannon-fodder disposable unit tactics can end up hurting you since you give them more adrenaline, which means recharges on their drain, and other silly things.

Recently, using my Mage, I out-initiative the ogres (I got the initiative blue dragon in the beginning, and I have black dragons), then cast Helplessness and Ancient Phoenix, ensuring a triple burn on the pesky Ogres and someone to hit besides me.

You "could" try Phantoming your Red Dragon instead. They won't last long, but you want to buy time for your other troops to setup the summoner wall.

You really need to de-buff the Ogres, and annihilate them. I think I even use Crushing Blow, since it will help take out about 2 ogres per hit. If there is a really really big stack, you probably want to drop Ball of Lightning on them. If they truly overwhelm, you might want to sneak out a Mystic Egg asap.

You might even want to consider quaffing a Potion of Rage so you can start off with one of those abilities first.

Best debuff spells would be
- Helplessness Level 3 (lasts ... dunno, but more than 2 rounds).
- Plague Level 1 (lasts two rounds though)

Use helplessness IF you have a potentially high damaging stack (lots of thorns), and the enemy defense is ~40 HIGHER than your attack.

Use plague otherwise.

If you can throw in a Damage Over Time effect like Poison or Fire, that would be good, but I'm not sure how "smart" your Paladin is (intellect) .

If all else fails, you could try non-stop phantoming of your rune mages, so you can keep resummoning heavenly guards. Then use mana accelerator to keep the summon-spam machine going.
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  #4  
Old 01-01-2011, 04:37 AM
Minecontrol Minecontrol is offline
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Quote:
Best debuff spells would be
- Helplessness Level 3 (lasts ... dunno, but more than 2 rounds).
- Plague Level 1 (lasts two rounds though)

Use helplessness IF you have a potentially high damaging stack (lots of thorns), and the enemy defense is ~40 HIGHER than your attack.
Agree about the usefulness of helplessness against Ogres (or Orc Chieftains, Trolls etc), just worked well for me in the Scrounger fight. You can rip apart a single very large stack in one round.

I think he needs more initiative, there is a skill which (if you have at least one Orc troop with you) increases initiative by up to +3 for the first round (allowing you to get a tank up front). Having a fast Unit like Red Dragons however is going to be such an obvious target for Draining (which is what allows the Ogres to reach your back line - using the AP of the RD). Maybe consider using teleport to get your tank up front? Maybe teleport Paladins up near the Ogres instead? (better for melee against physical damagers).

Try Stoneskin on your tank round 1 and Magic Spring on it round 2 (then heal when necessary). A strong unit against Ogres is the Shaman, the flying Axes will do high damage to the Ogres as it is magic type damage and bypasses defence - while also healing all your troops (including your red dragons and rune mages), if the Ogres get close the Shamans can hold their own in defence (and melee attack) too and their totems will attract one of the Ogres to attack them (thus using up their round) see if there are any nearby to recruit.

Inquisitors are good very early game but after the first or second island there are far better options imho... The Ogres are going to be smashing them up and making a resurrection headache for you... Their resurrection skill is weak compared to Pals, Runes too and by then their rage generating talent is redundant in most fights.
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  #5  
Old 01-01-2011, 08:02 AM
atlatea atlatea is offline
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I agree, use helplesness, it's the best spells againts all lv 5 (except those that have magic immunity), not just ogre.

General things againts ogre, you must have more than initiative than them, which force you to resort on 2 things, either you take warrior onslaught skill or choosing unit with high initiative.

Here is another add from me, another alternative is you don't want to use full of your unit and just use red dragons, using your unit composition you'll have easier time if you use red dragon, i really mean it because you go againts 5 stack of ogres, and your unit composition will be torn apart by them, your problem is on the inquisitor, rune mage and royal thorn, ogre will surely drain them in turn 1, and they are very squishy, which means they will be ripped apart with ease in turn 1, and your red dragon won't do much because ogre passive abilities is doing 150% more damage to flyer, and your red dragon is a flyer and by draining inq/rune/royal they can also rip your red dragon with ease in turn 1 , only your paladin offer the best chance to win in this scenario.

Though if you choose to use only red dragon, you need sufficient lv of mana accelerator, poison skull lv 3, onslaught and adrenaline skill though. You can choose beetwen onslaught or adrenaline, but i recommend taking both. Also consider blue dragon pet, he has +1 initiative bonus.

Also if you care about game time, this strategy is not recomended, because there is no nearby castle to store your units in goblin island if i remembered right unless you don't care about game time or you care about game time and prepared enough to dismiss your units which is really crazy if you ask me (though maybe not in normal difficulty because you have insane amount of gold in normal difficulty).

Ok, here is the strategy, take that onstlaught and adrenaline, lv both of them to lv 3 (adrenaline is the first priority), consider taking caution 3 too. My paladin always have adrenaline 3, onslaught 3 and caution 3, it's best againts ogre and archdemon, especially archdemon, and it seems that this caution reduce archdemon halving damage, so it won't be 50% of your total stack hp, instead it will be just 35% (CMIIW). Holy armor special skill also seems to do the same as caution.

Red dragon will have higher initiative than ogre via adrenaline 3 (+onslaught 3 if you have), cast poison skull lv 3 on each of them (from the most dangerous stack to the least one). Remember don't wait or you'll be drained, either defend, move (use all your action points) or use fire flood, if they're close to your red dragons, just run (use all your action points)/run then fire flood. They won't be able to drain you nor they will be able to reach you because of adrenaline 3, because adrenaline 3 will give your red dragon +2 initiative and +2 speed, which means your red dragon will have 8 initiative (9 initiative if you have blue pet dragon) and 9 speed.

Honestly, there is no need for onslaught if you just use red dragons, however i still recommend taking onslaught 3.

If you have caution 3 and holy armor 3, a couple of errors is allowed, meaning your red dragons got hit by them.

And if you have resurrection 3, many errors is allowed, because you accept loses. With this resurrection 3, your casualties on your red dragons will be counted as loses in the final score, however your dead red dragon will be 100% resurrected. Up to you though.

Last edited by atlatea; 01-01-2011 at 08:19 AM.
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  #6  
Old 01-01-2011, 03:01 PM
Kalenden Kalenden is offline
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Thanks, I'll try these strategies out! I've already smashed up one of the weaker stacks using some of these strategies, now on to the stronger ones!
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  #7  
Old 01-02-2011, 12:37 PM
atlatea atlatea is offline
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You're welcome.

I forgot something, actually you don't need any magic if you use only red dragon, but you must have adrenaline 3 (paladin class skill).

Same as above, just run and fire flood, if fire flood still on reload, run and defend (you must always spent all your action points).

I know it is boring, but very easy and 100% guaranteed for no loss win. Just don't misclick.
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