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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer 1C: Maddox Games.

View Poll Results: Steam poll
Yes I have and like using Steam 256 54.47%
Yes I have and dont like using Steam 67 14.26%
No I do not have Steam but will for CoD 52 11.06%
No I do not have Steam and will not for CoD 95 20.21%
Voters: 470. You may not vote on this poll

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  #281  
Old 03-16-2011, 07:53 PM
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Extreme_One Extreme_One is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadBlaster View Post
... Steam admits to collecting personal information, sending e-mails...etc. in their privacy policy that I link to below. That's spyware in my book. .
Seems like comprehension isn't a strong point, either that or you didn't read it correctly.
I'll make it easier for you.

Quote:
"Aggregate information" is information that describes the habits, usage patterns, and demographics of users as a group but does not describe or reveal the identity of any particular user.

"Individual information" is information about a user that is presented in a form distinguishable from information relating to other users but not in a form that personally identifies any user or enables the recipient to communicate directly with any user unless agreed to by the user in advance of such communication. This information may be used to improve Valve's products and online sites, for internal marketing studies, or simply to collect demographic information about Valve's users.

Valve may use customer contact information provided by users to send information about Valve, including news about product updates, contests, events, and other promotional materials, but only if the users agree to receive such communications.
Much the same as any other internet site you register for or many other pieces of software you already run on your PC.
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  #282  
Old 03-16-2011, 07:53 PM
Fritz X Fritz X is offline
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@ MadBlaster:

Don't forget your tinfoil hat, for otherwise Valve will intrude into your cranial spheres with their Steam death-rays of doom. It's true!

And beware of google.com, for...
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  #283  
Old 03-16-2011, 07:58 PM
MadBlaster MadBlaster is offline
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Originally Posted by Extreme_One View Post
Seems like comprehension isn't a strong point, either that or you didn't read it correctly.
I'll make it easier for you.



Much the same as any other internet site you register for or many other pieces of software you already run on your PC.
I read it perfectly SteamBoy. You copy/pasting/formating what I already linked to is waste of server memory.
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  #284  
Old 03-16-2011, 08:11 PM
zauii zauii is offline
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Originally Posted by MadBlaster View Post
I read it perfectly SteamBoy. You copy/pasting/formating what I already linked to is waste of server memory.
Following your logic makes it impossible to use the internet without being "violated".
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  #285  
Old 03-16-2011, 08:22 PM
whatnot whatnot is offline
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Originally Posted by MadBlaster View Post
I see no reason to call it something else (i.e. "distribution platform"). That is a marketing strategy by Steam to make it more acceptable to the gaming population they are trying to manipulate. Steam admits to collecting personal information, sending e-mails...etc. in their privacy policy that I link to below. That's spyware in my book. Opt in or out doesn't matter except to the gullible. They collect the information and use it to their monetary benefit. The basis of their business model. So let's all be good Steam boys and buy all our games through Steam. Let's tell our friends about Steam and convince them to buy games through Steam so they can tell their friends about Steam so Steam can make a lot of money for doing something you really don't need at all. And make sure to tell your friends that it is really dark ages to click on an executable to install a patch. "So 20th Century"! Wouldn't you rather have Steam take control of your computer and do that for you??? Lets all be Steam bots!!! We can all talk on the Steam forum so Steam social engineering team can track our responses and behaviour more effectively so Steam can sell even more games! And if there is something buggy with CoD, we won't give much support in the forum because we hope you will get tired of playing CoD soon and buy another game from Steam instead. The wonderful world of Steam.

http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.html
Is Valve really a company that is in the business to make money?! That's downright immoral for a wanting to make money like that! There they are, all over the internet, offering consumers a platform that enables online purchase of PC games and automatic upgrades. Outrageous!

And what really makes me sick is that they collect information! It's my information and I will never give it to anyone, especially companies! If I do they might be able to offer me products that I'm interested in!
That alone would have been enough to abandon ship but now hearing that those bastards have the nerve to send their customers an email! That's it, no CoD for me! I will never be their Steam Boy!

Viva la liberación!
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  #286  
Old 03-16-2011, 08:26 PM
MadBlaster MadBlaster is offline
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Originally Posted by zauii View Post
Following your logic makes it impossible to use the internet without being "violated".
It's a matter of degree. We all expose our IP address. At the same time all of us our using pseudonyms to converse on this forum. We each draw our own line on internet privacy.
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  #287  
Old 03-16-2011, 08:38 PM
MadBlaster MadBlaster is offline
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Originally Posted by whatnot View Post
Is Valve really a company that is in the business to make money?! That's downright immoral for a wanting to make money like that! There they are, all over the internet, offering consumers a platform that enables online purchase of PC games and automatic upgrades. Outrageous!

And what really makes me sick is that they collect information! It's my information and I will never give it to anyone, especially companies! If I do they might be able to offer me products that I'm interested in!
That alone would have been enough to abandon ship but now hearing that those bastards have the nerve to send their customers an email! That's it, no CoD for me! I will never be their Steam Boy!

Viva la liberación!
My point is about privacy and end user control over their own PC. It is not about the morality of making money in a business venture. Example. Door salesman used to come to my house all the time to try and sell me something. I used to be polite and answer the door and listen. After a while it got to be a real drag having to listen to their sales pitch and waste my time. So now I just don't answer the door and they leave me alone. Life is better.
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  #288  
Old 03-16-2011, 10:06 PM
kimosabi kimosabi is offline
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You still have complete control over your gaming though. Don't buy the game. The industry is on a course towards digital distribution and ball grips, the only real solution to put an end to that is not buying and massive protests. Loss of profit for the industry.

Then we have to ask ourselves, how bad can it be?
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  #289  
Old 03-16-2011, 11:04 PM
Comrade_Mike Comrade_Mike is offline
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Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt View Post
snip
that all seems fair enough. the quality of most of the anti-steam wingefest posts here really just seem childish and pathetic. as for your concerns, i highly doubt there will actually be a void that will need to be filled by something like hyperlobby, and yes, in principle, steam should be optional. in reality they must have their reasons for making it mandatory.
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  #290  
Old 03-17-2011, 03:50 AM
Blackdog_kt Blackdog_kt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les View Post
They should release the game in such a form that it only requires SolidShield activation for online or off-line use.

But the default built-in multi-player browser should still be linked to Steam, so that you require a Steam account to use those default built-in multi-player features.

That way, anyone can play off-line with or without installing Steam, and play online with or without installing Steam, though not using Steam would require connecting to a server via direct ip or by using a third-party browser.

Anyone see a problem with that?

SolidShield for DRM online activation, Steam registration for optional use of the default built-in multi-player browser.

Patches and extra content released through Steam and through the traditional channels.

I can't see any technical issues with that, and in terms of reaching your greatest potential audience and market, it's a better solution than what's been proposed so far. In my case, I'd buy a Steam version and a stand-alone version, as that's what I originally intended to do before all this bs blew up.

If you agree with this proposed solution give me some feedback in this thread, as it might be worth making a one-sided poll just to put some more solid numbers up on the board and perhaps make UBI/1C aware of the situation that's developed around this issue.
That's what i've been bitching about all the while, excellent solution that keeps everybody happy

Not to mention that it's also going to benefit the steam users if we have separate versions, because of what Fritz X accurately points out:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz X View Post
What I don't really like is the thought of this game using Steam and the Solid Shield DRM. I'm pretty sure they have their reasons to do so, but afterall Steam performs pretty well as a DRM itself. Yes, of course games can be copied illegally on there too, but I doubt that Solid Shield is gonna be fully working, too. And how badly the gaming experience can turn out if two different systems (Steam and GFWL in this case) are used at once players of "Dawn of War II" and its' first expansion "Chaos Rising" might still remember...
The current situation will be equally cumbersome both for non-users and fans of Steam: they are forcing the copy protection i'm more comfortable with on the steam users and vice versa, when we could have an option to choose during installation. I think battlefield bad company did it this way? Players were presented with a choice when installing, one time online activation or disc in the drive to run the game.
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