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  #1  
Old 03-30-2011, 11:50 PM
scorpac scorpac is offline
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Default Gunnery totally strange

Hello all,

do you have the same Problem?

When you pull up or down or left and right and shoot while doing that, even if you move soooooo slowly, the guns totally shuut up down left or right so its impossible to aim
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  #2  
Old 03-30-2011, 11:54 PM
Luffe Luffe is offline
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Could this have something to do with the auto rudder function?

I don't have COD yet, but I have seen 3 different settings, on screenshots, for it in the keysetting.
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  #3  
Old 03-31-2011, 12:02 AM
Wurschtie Wurschtie is offline
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Try a lower sensitivity setting for the ruder. Of course, aiming with the bird is not easy. It requires practice. Even yawing slightly has a huge effect on where you're firing. A 5° yaw away from the target is a miss of dozens of meters on a target that is 300 meters away.

Practice. You will be getting better.
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  #4  
Old 03-31-2011, 12:15 AM
Herra Tohtori Herra Tohtori is offline
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Fluid dynamics in ballistics 101...

Ok here's the brief run-down of what I think is going on, based on what you wrote:

Any object going through air experiences a multitude of forces upon them, bullets are no exception and in fact due to their high velocity and small mass, the aerodynamics are quite complicated (air tends to become quite viscous at such high velocities, as an example).

Not only do they experience high drag, but the airflow can also exert sideways forces on them.

The biggest issue here is the Magnus effect. It is essentially the same phenomenon that causes the curve in a curve ball on football, tennis or what have you.


Magnus effect is caused by the rotation of an object traveling through airflow. The rotation causes situation called circulation, which makes the rotating object behave analogous to an aero foil - lift force is exerted upon the rotating body.


Bullets rotate very fast due to the rifling of the barrels, so if they travel even the least bit sideways through air, they can experience very high sideways lift forces that can curve their paths quite a bit.


When your airplane is traveling forward at low angle of attack, the guns are fixed to point forward as well - meaning the bullets will travel roughly against the airflow. When you are pitching up or down, or yawing left or right, your airplane points in a different direction than where it is going (heading and velocity directions are not the same). This means that your guns now shoot slightly sideways into the airflow, and your bullets will experience Magnus effect, curving their trajectories in unpredictable fashion and increasing their drag.

This effect was in fact so significant as bomber aircraft got faster and faster that shooting to the side, or directly up or down caused the bullets' trajectories to curve so drastically that it was practical impossibility to actually hit targets that way. Fighter pilots (those who lived) quickly noticed this and approached their targets from above, below or the sides, as the gunners were much less effective that way compared to frontal assault or shooting from 6 o'clock position. The bombers countered by flying in larger formations...


Now, not having seen the issue in-game, I can't say if it is in fact the ballistic simulation of Magnus effect that is causing you to miss, but I did hear they supposedly upgraded the ballistics quite a bit. Maybe this is one of the improvements?

Don't take my word for it, it could be a glitch as well as accurate simulation. Wait for a dev to give you an answer directly from the horse's mouth, when they have time for it.


Incidentally, this is one of the reasons so many tanks use smooth-bore barrels on their main guns as opposed to rifled guns. Smooth-bore barrel does not give the benefit of stability to the projectile, but on the other hand it is much less affected by wind for reasons I specified above. Stability of the projectiles can be achieved by other means than rotation from the rifling, after all (SABOT rounds have flechette-like projectiles with fins for stability, for example).

Last edited by Herra Tohtori; 03-31-2011 at 12:17 AM.
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  #5  
Old 03-31-2011, 12:24 AM
Shrike_UK Shrike_UK is offline
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i've watched quite a few youtube vids, it appears all ive seem have this issue but no-one complains, but then most are using arcade settings.
some have speculated it might be an auto aiming 'feature' as the plane is flying straight and level but the guns shoot off to the sides like they are try to shoot lead (lead as in intercept path)
hope it can be switched off.
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  #6  
Old 03-31-2011, 12:39 AM
esmiol esmiol is offline
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maybe that come from the setting who make move you head with movement of plane...because of that you may think that your visor and you are in the axe of plane...and in fact no.

but it is possible that ballistic is improve on COD compair with il2 because look the bombs falling.... they never more fall like in il2. they are balanced and dispercing.

like i said to myself....."learn again to shoot in COD man"
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  #7  
Old 03-31-2011, 12:55 AM
Biggs Biggs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpac View Post
Hello all,

do you have the same Problem?

When you pull up or down or left and right and shoot while doing that, even if you move soooooo slowly, the guns totally shuut up down left or right so its impossible to aim
NO i noticed it too.... they "point" with your movements... its not like last game where the dot was EXACTLY where ur bullets were gonna go... NOW its like the bullets will go where your last movement before you fired was...IE: if you give it left rudder right before you fire... ur bullets will be LEFT of the dot...if you rudder right, just before firing, ur bullets will go RIGHT of the dot...

its a new way of having to think about aiming...

you have to STEER your bullets now...

I almost fell like its a bug.

Go ahead and give it a try, take a hurri out against a bomber or something (with lots of tracers so u can see).. its very odd

Last edited by Biggs; 03-31-2011 at 12:58 AM.
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  #8  
Old 03-31-2011, 03:08 AM
Biggs Biggs is offline
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Bump...

Anyone else notice this problem?
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  #9  
Old 03-31-2011, 02:53 PM
Biggs Biggs is offline
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Im bumping this again... This is a very serious issue... and should be the first gameplay bug to be addressed!

I did a gun test (with a Hurricane) and its absolutely comfirmed... the gunnery physics are wrong/bugged...

when you apply rudder while shooting the bullets do the exact opposite of what they SHOULD be doing...

If i rudder to the right the bullets SHOULD fall to the LEFT of the aim point. And if i rudder to the left the bullets SHOULD fall to the RIGHT of the aim point.

However in the game, when i rudder to the right the bullets 'magically' defy the laws of physics and actually move out AHEAD of the aim point to the right!!!!

HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE!? How are the guns "turning" faster than the plane is traversing?

This has completely ruined the gunnery aspect of the game. which is one of the main points of a COMBAT flight sim, if im not mistaken.

--- for all of you not sure what im talking about ... take a hurricane out, fly in 'wonder woman' mode.... hold down the trigger and then apply rudder.... the bullets will magically 'turn' in the direction you are apply rudder to.
making deflection shooting completely FUBAR!
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  #10  
Old 03-31-2011, 03:13 PM
ZaltysZ ZaltysZ is offline
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It is graphical bug.
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