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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer 1C: Maddox Games.

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  #41  
Old 02-20-2012, 05:53 PM
speculum jockey
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Originally Posted by yellonet View Post
Personally I don't see the need for the developers putting in different "game modes".
Everything needed to create different game ideas should be in the editor, if it isn't already I hope we get the tools that are needed eventually.
This is one of the biggest problems to having new players pick it up and community members remain with it. If you have a bunch of mods, the community becomes fractured, and new players have tremendous difficulties getting into it. Making it part of the actual game, and making the offered tools in the game more flexible/in depth is a much better solution. I'm not saying "no mods" but there should be some things included in the game besides DOGFIGHT!

Also having to copy your game directory to another folder so that the latest patch doesn't automatically corrupt your modded game is a bit of a pain. Worst of all, new players have to do a certain number of things to get on the same page and be able to fly with the rest of us...

1. Install/Patch (no problem)
2. Find out what mod offers what they want.
3. Find a download link that's not a porn-redirect or expired.
4. Install the mod and hopefully not screw it up.
5. Get online and play.

The biggest obstacle to this person getting online is that they have to talk to the "I'm old and hate new people and new things scare me and make me angry" forum members here. Does this new person want to have to listen to the usual suspects tell them to go play Wings of Prey a million times just because they want to practice without CEM or limited Ammo? Maybe they will ignore that, but they will still have to sift through a million "Steam is the devil" and "Why don't we have the correct number of rivets on the 110's wheel well cover?" to find the thread with the correct post to direct them to the proper mod.

Why do the MG devs always have to rely on the fans to make their games interesting?
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  #42  
Old 02-20-2012, 06:56 PM
EvilJoven
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I see what you're looking for with this thread. You want to know about what gameplay mechanics we want, not little fiddly details like FM or AI tweaks.

So, for gameplay elements.

Co-op mission / campaign generator. The IL-2 DCG does an OK job of it, Lowengrin made a much better one. This is badly needed. Nobody wants to spend hours and hours making single missions.

Something like SEOW for online VS campaigns.

Now that I think about this, these things were alluded to as things that would come with CLOD back when it was called Storm of War... what happened?

One fiddly technical bit that I just can't help but bring up (sorry); this game sorely needs a map / plane icon system like 777 Studios did for Rise of Flight. It's the only thing I can think of to end the current situation with the online community right now, which is people demanding full realism and then flying at treetop level (or below because LOL no tree collision) because there's no reflection off of cockpit glass making planes damn near invisible when they're below you.
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  #43  
Old 02-20-2012, 08:02 PM
yellonet yellonet is offline
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Originally Posted by speculum jockey View Post
This is one of the biggest problems to having new players pick it up and community members remain with it. If you have a bunch of mods, the community becomes fractured, and new players have tremendous difficulties getting into it. Making it part of the actual game, and making the offered tools in the game more flexible/in depth is a much better solution. I'm not saying "no mods" but there should be some things included in the game besides DOGFIGHT!
This I agree with. Also, I never said anything about mods, I clearly stated that creating different game modes and scenarios should be possible with the editor in the game.

Anyway, IMO, having different servers running different types of maps/scenarios would not be as dividing for the community as creating the game modes that you suggest.
Having racing and the like as standard parts of the game would maybe draw more people to the product, but on the other hand, most of them would not be interested in the heart of the sim, namely realistic WW2 air combat.
Thus the community would become divided in different parts that play the sim for very different reasons.
And honestly I think that something like that could damage the IL-2 brand.

And don't get me wrong, I really don't mind different game modes, I would probably enjoy many of them, but I just don't think they should be built-in or at least not something you promote the game with.

If interest is low for sims right now, the solution cannot be to incorporate different types of gameplay, this will only water down the product and ultimately transform it to something else.

Who knows, maybe simulations have a bright future, with the amount of gamers today there's bound to be a few that will turn an eye to sims, but for that to happen sims need to be something different, not just compilationa of game experiences that can easily be had elsewhere. Simulations must be distinctly different from other games.

Last edited by yellonet; 02-20-2012 at 08:05 PM.
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  #44  
Old 02-20-2012, 11:50 PM
speculum jockey
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Originally Posted by yellonet View Post
This I agree with. Also, I never said anything about mods, I clearly stated that creating different game modes and scenarios should be possible with the editor in the game.
I really don't see them giving us the tools to do it within the game, so any type of drastically different content will have to come from an authorized 3rd part (unlikely give the sales figures) or modders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellonet
Anyway, IMO, having different servers running different types of maps/scenarios would not be as dividing for the community as creating the game modes that you suggest.
Having racing and the like as standard parts of the game would maybe draw more people to the product, but on the other hand, most of them would not be interested in the heart of the sim, namely realistic WW2 air combat.
Thus the community would become divided in different parts that play the sim for very different reasons.
And honestly I think that something like that could damage the IL-2 brand.

And don't get me wrong, I really don't mind different game modes, I would probably enjoy many of them, but I just don't think they should be built-in or at least not something you promote the game with.

If interest is low for sims right now, the solution cannot be to incorporate different types of gameplay, this will only water down the product and ultimately transform it to something else.

Who knows, maybe simulations have a bright future, with the amount of gamers today there's bound to be a few that will turn an eye to sims, but for that to happen sims need to be something different, not just compilationa of game experiences that can easily be had elsewhere. Simulations must be distinctly different from other games.
I see it exactly the opposite way. Those other types of gameplay modes draw new players to the genre, but they stay for the more in-depth modes. . . that hopefully the developers will include. If you want to talk about bringing in the wrong kind of people and dividing the community, add tanks and ground vehicles! The devs have obviously put a lot of effort into that, but we're all still without CO-OP, any type of meaningful gameplay mode, and just circling over a town in dogfight serves, hoping to spot an enemy aircraft above us.

When my friends and I would play a round of SEOW we'd do random dogfights, or a co-op bombing mission, or do formation flying, or anything other than straight-up dogfighting since that got boring fast and we were waiting for everyone to get read for the real show (SEOW). Adding additional gameplay modes doesn't divide a community. It give them some way to kill time while still honing their skills while waiting for the real mission to start, or a quick diversion when they got shot down 5 minutes into a 2 hour op.

I think the community has spoken and the developers will probably listen. "Don't give us anything other than dogfight, just focus on making more and more obscure or marginally different versions of planes and we'll be happy. All we want to do is fly dogfight after dogfight, and make sure this sim never becomes popular because we are afraid of new content or players." I don't know how many time I've read on these forums that members here would rather the game not be made than have realism options or have ROF style icons, or something else that would get other people interested. It's like just knowing that somewhere out there a player isn't flying "full switch" makes their blood boil.

It seems that the CLOD community is sharing the same mission statement with the RIAA. "Anything new is EVIL! We will stick together in our little group, our numbers dwindling as our product dies a slow inglorious death because we didn't want to change with the times!" I'm not saying turn this into X-Wing vs. BF-109, I'm saying be open to new ideas. Unfortunately the devs listen to the people here and at the SU-26 forums, and that's why we have the correct font on the Hawker Hurricane's seat-recliner handle, but no CO-OP. Oleg, and now Luthier think that this very small, very insane, vocal minority represents the entire potential market for CLOD.

The big numbers that are still left in the PC gaming community are MMORPG's and First person shooters. The MMORPG's save users stats, their accomplishments, and emphasize that they are part of a larger group, and their actions mean something. Even FPS's are starting to save stats and giving players upgrades and awards and other trinkets. They may be simple, be at least they acknowledge that players want their gaming to mean something other than, "HAHA, I shot down 1.5 planes for every time I died in this dogfight!" They are also really emphasizing teamwork oriented play, because they have done studies and know that players like to accomplish something as a group, and not just see who has the highest number of kills at the end of the round. Those studios, unlike 1C have money to spend on marketing research, and other things that ensure they deliver the game the public wants. All MG/1C did was listen to people complain that Tower bridge wasn't the right shade of gray, that the fields has obviously been tended by modern tractors, and that OMG WHY IS THE PILOT SO SMALL!?! That's exactly why we are almost a year into the gam's release and we still don't have a properly working game.

I was hoping that there were enough reasonable people on these forums to echo what other people wanted (outside of here) but that's not the case. I've been to other forums where people ask if CLOD is work buying and the answer is usually, "It's broken, there is no game content and the community is horrible. They also mention that 90% of the posts are just "+1" and too many people end their posts by restating their user name and saluting "~S" which is just sad and makes actual veterans cringe.
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  #45  
Old 02-21-2012, 12:58 AM
Chivas Chivas is offline
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People will not have to build their own missions if they don't want too. There are missions and campaigns available online and the list will continue to grow. If these missions don't suit their sensibilities then its quite easy to learn how to make basic missions and then more complex mission with how to's posted by community members.

The new game engine, FMB and Triggers will allow far more mission types that the original series. At the moment the developers don't have the time to make them as they are still behind the eight ball finishing and optimizing the game engine etc.
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  #46  
Old 02-21-2012, 02:30 AM
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zakkandrachoff zakkandrachoff is offline
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i want a more full complete quick misison builder with autotriggers and... very complete, SORPRISE ME with the mission.
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  #47  
Old 02-24-2012, 03:12 AM
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Default Full real CEM

Whilst waiting for the 'patch' I downloaded the Spitfire in the Microsoft Flight Sim. The graphics are nothing compared to CoD, and there is no shoot em up bang bangs, but how cool was it to get the thing airborne, using every button and knob in the cockpit. Maintaining temp etc was also cool and got me thinking how awesome it would be to have the same CEM in CoD.
It was a bit of work learning it but it was heaps of fun. I can imagine that in a dog fight you would be doing a fair bit of work so you don't over heat the engine. So I'm guessing I'm looking for full real, moving completely away from any resemblance to an arcade game.
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  #48  
Old 02-24-2012, 04:42 AM
SKUD SKUD is offline
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Originally Posted by csThor View Post
It takes a very mature and committed community to make such setups work. I did lurk for a long time over at the S3 boards and was always fascinated by the setup (although I felt it was far too often far too fighter centered but part of this is owed to WB's planeset).
I only flew a half dozen or so of these frames unfortunately but I remember one in particular-throwing my 6 FW190s against at least 60 B-17s piloted by human pilots. Quite an awesome sight when they first pop into view. The same awe felt by the LW pilots in defense of the Reich. Imagine what 600 looked like. We did like they did. We went in and did our job the best we could and try to get back alive.
I think most of us are attracted to this genre because we kind of wish we had been there and could become that part of history. Of course its nice not to face real death. It's also neat to see real life results emerge from a simulation.
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  #49  
Old 02-24-2012, 07:22 AM
Flanker35M Flanker35M is offline
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S!

I remember the historical scenarios in Aces High. That was great fun! Felt more like bing there instead of senseless furballing over a certain spot on the map. We got lucky and decimated the incoming bomber formation before escorts arrived, so our job was done That felt like an achievement!
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  #50  
Old 02-24-2012, 08:27 AM
David198502 David198502 is offline
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Originally Posted by banned View Post
Whilst waiting for the 'patch' I downloaded the Spitfire in the Microsoft Flight Sim. The graphics are nothing compared to CoD, and there is no shoot em up bang bangs, but how cool was it to get the thing airborne, using every button and knob in the cockpit. Maintaining temp etc was also cool and got me thinking how awesome it would be to have the same CEM in CoD.
It was a bit of work learning it but it was heaps of fun. I can imagine that in a dog fight you would be doing a fair bit of work so you don't over heat the engine. So I'm guessing I'm looking for full real, moving completely away from any resemblance to an arcade game.
+1000
it somehow bugs me that clod does not offer the whole package...(hopefully it will someday)
i often imagined sitting in a real 109, i couldnt even start the engine, because i would be searching for the i button.whilst it is a bit more detailed than its predecessor, there are still sooo many triggers, levers and buttons not working in the cockpits.
also some gauges don't work correctly, and CEM, while im happy that we have it, isnt working properly and could and should be way more detailed.
radiators dont have any effect on airspeed.....and so on.im no expert, but i would imagine that flying the real thing is much more demanding than it is in the game.
give us all the workload like one would have in real life and im happy.lowering the realism options would make those happy who like it a little less demanding.
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